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General Discussion => Other Games => Topic started by: SpadeDraco on November 02, 2016, 02:57:15 AM

Title: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: SpadeDraco on November 02, 2016, 02:57:15 AM
It's especially evident in the Fallout series (not New Vegas that one was awesome and made by Obsidian), but the Elder Scrolls have been showing it too. I'd say ever since Oblivion introduced level scaling and radiant quests the developers have taken it as a licence to be as lazy as possible with the world building and quest design. It really sucks as nobody else in the industry is really making games similar to theirs and being more and more disappointed with everything that they develop is really eating me up as a fan of the format.   
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Subhazard on November 02, 2016, 03:28:15 AM
Games that you want exist, you just don't look for them.

How you got to CDDA without seeing those games is completely beyond me.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: SpadeDraco on November 02, 2016, 08:07:35 AM
Games that you want exist, you just don't look for them.

How you got to CDDA without seeing those games is completely beyond me.

If you're referring to other roguelikes I'm pretty well versed on them. I lamenting the lack of big pretty open world Triple A RPGs. I agree that things like Cata, Dwarf Fortress, and ADOM are leagues better than most "mainstream" rpgs, but I occasionally get the urge to play something with well detailed graphics and sound.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Subhazard on November 02, 2016, 08:31:47 AM
The Witcher 3 comes to mind.

The Mass Effect series.

Dying Light



Or did you mean 'Exactly like an elderscrolls game, but done how I want it to be done'

Because if you lower your requirements, there's a LOT of good stuff out there.

Kenshi's pretty good, if you like brutal worlds with brutal UIs.  It has terrible graphics.

The Dark Souls series is hubworld (not open world) but it has depth, great story, pretty graphics.



Maybe you'd better serve yourself if you pinned down exactly what you want in a game.  I know of a LOT of games that most people haven't heard of.

And don't just say 'well I want open world and pretty graphics'  think about what you enjoy about open world and great graphics. What is it about those features that you enjoy?  Perhaps there are other features you haven't thought of that bring the same feelings.


Help me help you.

Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Ferodaktyl on November 02, 2016, 09:19:53 AM
Gothic 3 is not such a bad game also, even if first 2 are  better imo, but graphically they lack compared to today's standards
 But while i liked Skyrim, i still like Morrowind more, and Fallout 4.... that was a big letdown for me. They are going more mainstream, because $$
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Subhazard on November 02, 2016, 09:34:21 AM
I can't for the life of my get into the Gothic series.

I tried Gothic 1 and was immediately turned off by the control scheme. couldn't get over it.

Perhaps one day, but for now... ech.


Oh I also hear Dragon's Dogma is pretty good!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: SpadeDraco on November 02, 2016, 04:20:40 PM
Oh I also hear Dragon's Dogma is pretty good!

Play it! Nao! Game deserves to be a classic.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Shopkeeper on November 02, 2016, 06:47:05 PM
I enjoyed Fallout 3 and thought it was relatively true to the series after picking up and completing Fallout 2 a week before release. Though I prefer Fallout: New Vegas to play through F3's content using a Tale of Two Wastelands nowadays. They shit the bed with Fallout 4 so bad and it pains me to say that. The voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, oversaturation of radiant quests, removal of skills, and the entire game being designed around a hackneyed settlement system based on a subpar mod all came together to castrate any roleplaying potential the game had.

Oh I also hear Dragon's Dogma is pretty good!

Play it! Nao! Game deserves to be a classic.

Patrician taste guys, I've played and enjoyed everything you've mentioned so far.

Though Dragon's Dogma can be an acquired taste for some. It's throughly an Eastern RPG and that means no gameplay handholding with what seems like a distinct lack of story development and some frankly robotic cutscenes involving your blankslate protagonist. Once you put together the overarching story though (don't spoil yourselves!) it really is worth the effort.

Oh, and make sure to pickup the Dark Arisen version. Its a re-release with all the game's orginial content along with a heaping truckload of new stuff. The PC version that was just ported even includes a graphical update.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Subhazard on November 02, 2016, 07:25:28 PM
I enjoyed Fallout 3 and thought it was relatively true to the series after picking up and completing Fallout 2 a week before release. Though I prefer Fallout: New Vegas to play through F3's content using a Tale of Two Wastelands nowadays. They shit the bed with Fallout 4 so bad and it pains me to say that. The voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, oversaturation of radiant quests, removal of skills, and the entire game being designed around a hackneyed settlement system based on a subpar mod all came together to castrate any roleplaying potential the game had.

Oh I also hear Dragon's Dogma is pretty good!

Play it! Nao! Game deserves to be a classic.

Patrician taste guys, I've played and enjoyed everything you've mentioned so far.

Though Dragon's Dogma can be an acquired taste for some. It's throughly an Eastern RPG and that means no gameplay handholding with what seems like a distinct lack of story development and some frankly robotic cutscenes involving your blankslate protagonist. Once you put together the overarching story though (don't spoil yourselves!) it really is worth the effort.

Oh, and make sure to pickup the Dark Arisen version. Its a re-release with all the game's orginial content along with a heaping truckload of new stuff. The PC version that was just ported even includes a graphical update.

Ooo, Patrician Taste?  Never heard that phrase before. Sounds awesome, can you define it?



I'm actually not that interested in Dragon's Dogma because from what I hear it's mostly a grind fest.

Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: pisskop on November 02, 2016, 08:12:11 PM
Oblivion was a transitionary game,  There was quite a bit of effort to make new mechanics and innovation in oblivion.

skyrim was ... not a 'bad' game, but I was upset they called it skyrim instead of "Dragons Action Adventure Game"

Because everything in skyrim would have been better if it wasnt mutated into ES lore.  Skyrim would be better for it and TES would be too.


Bethesda let an unborn game series die when they named it TES V
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Shopkeeper on November 02, 2016, 08:16:04 PM
Ooo, Patrician Taste?  Never heard that phrase before. Sounds awesome, can you define it?

Its half in jest, but it means you guys have good taste in video games in my opinion.

I'm actually not that interested in Dragon's Dogma because from what I hear it's mostly a grind fest.

Yeah, in true JRPG fashion it's a grind if you want to actually beat it. I wiped the game's orginial final boss with almost comical ease. It was an epic fight don't get me wrong, but I spec'd an Assassin and was so in the grove of things by that point I just rolled him. Then when I NG+'d to continue the story because things were actually getting interesting the bargain bin goblins outside the first town could literally two-shot me.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Pthalocy on November 02, 2016, 10:10:36 PM
I honestly get the feeling they're getting their arms wrenched around backward trying to cater to both the modding pc community and console users - the game's always been console-port-to-pc as a result and it hurts.

And that god-damned physics engine of theirs has got to go. It's tying their remaining arm behind their back - I'm sure it's all tangled up in something stupid like the cost of licensing an existing engine versus writing a new in-house one, or something they just don't wanna do, but I'll have to look that up before I talk about it further. I don't have any confirmation on that but I can't fathom any good reason to hang onto the damn creation engine this long.

Okay, I admit -  I like fallout 4. But I went in with the expectation of wanting to mod it, and help edit mods to make my own mutations. I went in excited about having a world with a half-decent character creator tool to run new OC's through (it's easier to make a traits list grow into a full character when you have a world to subject them to). I didn't get this game because I was hype about finding my damn baby. Still haven't done that. I'm enjoying the process of breaking the intended story as much as humanly possible and using it like a sandbox.
Beth has a game community known for modding. They're spending more time now trying to support their in-house mod site that allows mods on console, and I think in attempting to interact with their fanbase like that, they've used up focus they'd otherwise put toward pushing their own intended vision for the series.

The game's greatest value is none of the things it's being designed to cater to.

Feels very small company with too much demand placed on it imo.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: StopSignal on November 02, 2016, 11:40:28 PM
Doom though. Doom.

Everything else, no idea. Just. Doom. So good.
I just wish snapmap would work like gzdoombuilder for the original doom.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Subhazard on November 02, 2016, 11:58:28 PM
Doom though. Doom.

Everything else, no idea. Just. Doom. So good.
I just wish snapmap would work like gzdoombuilder for the original doom.

Pay attention to the subject of the thread.

The subject was not "What are some good games released recently?"



Much like pouring any liquid into your car when it asks for 'liquid gasoline' but all you read was liquid, you are ruining the engine of this conversation.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: StopSignal on November 03, 2016, 12:30:32 AM
Man. Doom was by Bethesda. Stop your witty banter, and check your facts.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Subhazard on November 03, 2016, 12:50:21 AM
Check yours.

It was made by iD software.

It was published by Bethesda.






(Also how dare you)
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Pthalocy on November 07, 2016, 06:38:51 PM
Okay, so lesson learned: When Beth lets another company do the heavy lifting a lot of the stupid crap gets filtered out. DOOM is a fantastic example, since it uses iD's choice of physics engine and doesn't bother with the radiant questy open world. Tight gaming vision.
Oh hey! Bethesda was publisher for New Vegas, but left the actual work to Obsidian. Who handled the medium incredibly well and many people still love NV best.

Perhaps Beth needs to be duct-taped to the director's chair so someone else can provide actors, writers and film crew for the rest of their franchise.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Valpo on November 07, 2016, 10:34:15 PM
I like all fallout games.

Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Subhazard on November 08, 2016, 07:19:43 AM
Okay, so lesson learned: When Beth lets another company do the heavy lifting a lot of the stupid crap gets filtered out. DOOM is a fantastic example, since it uses iD's choice of physics engine and doesn't bother with the radiant questy open world. Tight gaming vision.
Oh hey! Bethesda was publisher for New Vegas, but left the actual work to Obsidian. Who handled the medium incredibly well and many people still love NV best.

Perhaps Beth needs to be duct-taped to the director's chair so someone else can provide actors, writers and film crew for the rest of their franchise.

Okay, it's not just 'do the heavy lifting' it's literally 'make the game'

A publisher handles marketing, distribution, and funding, they have little to no input in the creative process of the making the game.  They're the whip and the shopkeeper.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Pthalocy on November 13, 2016, 02:50:54 AM
I understand that, though my wordchoice was admittedly too generalized. A good distinction to make all the same.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: wad67 on November 15, 2016, 07:31:58 AM
Didn't really like fallout 4, could not get into it. Didn't finish it.
Fallout 3 was amazing when it came out, seems dated now though.
Fallout: NV was probably the best in the series, better once they patched it.
Played Fallout 1 & 2, never finished them

My father has a copy of ESO, I played it for a few hours and quickly became bored with that.
Never ended up finishing skyrim, couldn't get into it.

Beat oblivion multiple times, didn't mind it. Some of the DLC was cool.
Beaten morrowind countless times, Had it on xbox as a wee lad.
Daggerfall was fairly cool, especially with mods.
Didn't bother with arena.


Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Litppunk on November 15, 2016, 11:42:09 PM
Oblivion was fun until I realized just how much time I was spending grinding the Oblivian, and spending basically 0 time in the full world.

Skyrim was amazing, until I realized what was going on with the leveling, then I couldn't bring myself to pick it back up again. Which at first made me question if I just didn't like it because mob mentality, but the in the end its more because a world where all the leveling gets me nowhere because the world levels with me is just kills the fun.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Shopkeeper on November 16, 2016, 03:05:26 PM
Skyrim was amazing, until I realized what was going on with the leveling, then I couldn't bring myself to pick it back up again. Which at first made me question if I just didn't like it because mob mentality, but the in the end its more because a world where all the leveling gets me nowhere because the world levels with me is just kills the fun.

You my friend need Requiem - The Roleplaying Overhaul (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19281/?).

Also, I never realized how much the leveled world in Bethesda games have turned me off them. It wasn't that bad in F3, though the bullshit triumvirate of Albino Radscorpion/Feral Ghoul Reaver/Super Mutant Overlord with several thousand hitpoints each still leave a bad taste in my mouth. But F4's addition of legendary enemies and the Borderlands meme tier randomized loot just rubbed it in.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Litppunk on November 16, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
Can I DL it to the Xbox?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Pthalocy on November 16, 2016, 06:47:04 PM
Oblivion was fun until I realized just how much time I was spending grinding the Oblivian, and spending basically 0 time in the full world.

Skyrim was amazing, until I realized what was going on with the leveling, then I couldn't bring myself to pick it back up again. Which at first made me question if I just didn't like it because mob mentality, but the in the end its more because a world where all the leveling gets me nowhere because the world levels with me is just kills the fun.

First thing I do in all beth games is de-level all mob and loot spawns. Does it ruin a sense of 'progression'? Yeah. But over the years I've found I really do like a wild, random world where I can luck out with some good finds early, and garbage finds late. I used an overhaul called Requiem the same overhaul Shopkeep has suggested! Hah! - which made combat...rather more like dark souls id you calibrated it as such. I don't think they've packaged older skyrim stuff for xbox, no. SSE might prove differently.

I realize admitting a game I love needs modifying by default is like an admission of the game's inadequacy, and in a way I can't refute that. However, I greatly enjoy working with the modding community much the same way I like hangin' around here - it's just that Bethesda has more money to throw at a graphical interface. Different sandbox for me!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Litppunk on November 16, 2016, 06:55:42 PM
unfortunately I don't have a comp I can run something like that on right now. If I can get Requiem for Xbox 360 let me know, Id love to try it.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Deez Nutz on November 17, 2016, 07:36:02 PM
snip!
>Snippity-doo-da, snippity-day!<
Yes, pretty much every Beth or Beth-related game I've ever played I've had to mod heavily, I think the reason is that most of these games are just so huge that the devs simply can't finish everything in time for the deadlines, so they are forced to rely on the modding community to finish them. 

Lately though it seems that Beth isn't merely relying on the fans to just finish the games, but to actually MAKE the games! :(
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: baldamundo on November 17, 2016, 10:21:59 PM
Morrowind was overall a big improvement on Daggerfall, even though it regressed on some of the more avant-garde features Daggerfall pioneered. Oblivion was pretty bland and mediocre. Skyrim (while I still prefer Morrowind personally) drew together all the best features of the entire TES series. Whether you play TES for the graphics, the art-style, the plot, the world-building, the gameplay, the modding - whatever your angle - Skyrim was a huge step forward compared to Oblivion in pretty much every way. About the only relative downsides are that the expansions were kind of a mess and the stealth questlines weren't the best.

Yes, sure they've made compromises that aren't precisely to everyone's preferred tastes (i.e. hardcore Morrowind fanatics like me will never be happy!), but if you're arguing that the TES games are just unequivocally getting worse, you're talking total nonsense. Daggerfall and Morrowind did things that Skyrim doesn't, but Skyrim also does a hell of a lot of stuff a hell of a lot better than them, and it does basically everything better than Oblivion did.


Fallout I'm a bit more puzzled by, though. Genuinely don't understand all the hate Fallout 4 has gotten - imo it's easily the best thing Bethesda have published since Morrowind. It's arguably the first time they've had well thought out, well-written, coherent and thematic writing since Morrowind, it's the first time since Daggerfall that they've had any branching in the main questline, let alone branching as diverse and complex and well done as what Fallout 4 has, and it's the first time they've ever even bothered trying to have properly fleshed out NPC companions with actual personalities and stories of their own.

And sure, the settlement building is copied from a mod, but why is that supposed to be a bad thing? I think it's absolutely amazing and really refreshing and great that for a triple A mainstream title they've not only taken onboard features from one of the most innovative, creative and technically challenging mods out there, but they've incorporated it as a core gameplay feature and actually (like on balance imo at least) done a really good job of it. I definitely think there's a strong argument for Fallout 4 certainly being Bethesda's best game since Morrowind if not their best game ever (and I say that not because I'm a big FO4 fanboy, but because these games are balancing acts, and the things i might prefer about e.g. Morrowind or Daggerfall also came with huge drawbacks of their own).

Like, sure there are bits and pieces here and there that need fixing, but that's why modding exists.

The only two major, consistent criticisms I've seen are about the lack of nasty options (which is fair enough, although I think the latest DLC is supposed to be sort of an answer to that?) and the fact that the player character's voiced. And while I can understand people not being wild about the player voicing, I don't see why it's such a dealbreaker, especially if you look at it in context. Back in Daggerfall there was basically no voice acting whatsoever, then in Morrowind NPCs just got idle chatter and combat shouts that were identical for entire races. Then the player character started grunting and shouting as well, while we got mostly atrocious full voice acting for all NPCs - at its worst in Oblivion where you had the constant hideous spectacle of NPCs with exactly the same terrible voice acting constantly having the same stupid fucking conversations with each other again and again. A lot of us weren't convinced that this whole "more voice acting everywhere" thing was actually an improvement, but nowadays people think the lack of voice acting makes Daggerfall or Morrowind feel ridiculously dated.

So again, I'm not saying the voice acting thing isn't a problem, but it's clearly something that has its benefits as well as its drawbacks. And like, just as an aside, I've never seen people get similarly pissed about the PC being voiced in any other game, so I'm not sure I exactly understand the issue here specifically.


Quote
yes, pretty much every Beth or Beth-related game I've ever played I've had to mod heavily, I think the reason is that most of these games are just so huge that the devs simply can't finish everything in time for the deadlines, so they are forced to rely on the modding community to finish them. 

I mean, I think the actual point here is that these games are so vast and so all encompassing that they are never finished and can never be finished. Daggerfall, Morrowind, Skyrim, Fallouts 1 through 4 - these are all absolutely enormous games by any standards, but they all have so much that was planned but never made it.

But for an illustration of what I mean about them being impossible to finish, look at the Tamriel Rebuilt project for Morrowind. It's a mod project that's been in development for about a decade and a half now. What they've released so far fully doubles the already enormous landmass of Morrowind. And it's not just empty space - it's richly detailed, beautiful, hand-crafted stuff, most of it filled with carefully thought out characters, dialogue and quests. And last I checked the mod isn't even nearly half finished still. And bear in mind, their idea of finished is "as full of characters, quests, etc as the locations of vanilla Morrowind". But as the modding of Morrowind has shown, there is so much more detail and richness you can add on top of that still.

And this is just the part of the Tamriel Rebuilt project focused on showing us the rest of the province of Morrowind. The original ambition was, as the name suggests, to rebuild the whole of Tamriel - and the province of Morrowind only makes up about a ninth of that continent's landmass. There is no finishing a game like this. Details could keep on being added forever.

In fact, in that respect it's exactly like Cataclysm! Only because Cataclysm's open source and using the technology and development cycle that it's on, you guys actually can keep on adding to it forever! Thanks to capitalism and all the rest of it, Bethesda unfortunately can't do that.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: SpadeDraco on December 01, 2016, 12:47:49 PM
It's (reffering to Fallout 4) arguably the first time they've had well thought out, well-written, coherent and thematic writing since Morrowind.

You had me up until you said this. Please tell me you're being sarcastic. The bloody Twilight Saga was a more coherent narrative than Fallout 4! Writing is easily Bethesda's weakest talent. One look at  Fallout: New Vegas (which made Fallout 3 inferior in every aspect, and still puts Fallout 4 to shame in every department except the gunplay) should inform everyone in their right mind that Bethesda shouldn't be allowed to make Fallout games.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: ApatheticExcuse on December 01, 2016, 03:24:12 PM
I don't know why 4 gets so much hate. 3 was easily the worst game in the series, including BoS. It wasn't even a particularly good game by normal standards, let alone Fallout standards.

4's biggest weakness is that it doesn't add anything both interesting and new. It's still fun, just not "great".
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: SpadeDraco on December 01, 2016, 08:47:16 PM
I don't know why 4 gets so much hate. 3 was easily the worst game in the series, including BoS. It wasn't even a particularly good game by normal standards, let alone Fallout standards.

4's biggest weakness is that it doesn't add anything both interesting and new. It's still fun, just not "great".

I put 3 and 4 at about the same level. 3 had better area and quest design + roleplay potential. 4 had great combat, but lost most of it's personality and rpg appeal.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: Justin Case on December 21, 2016, 09:40:40 AM
My machine wont run fallout4 unfortunatly, but i really liked new vages! Thats a good game... nice atmosphere,

Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: CK_Kirbi on January 29, 2017, 09:52:46 AM
I definitely think Bethesda's game quality has been going down the gutter for awhile. Anyone who has played Daggerfall and has seen the rich depths of the magic system, the character attributes, and the various mini games that existed back at the time (Lock picking involved manipulating the actual tumblers in the lock) will know what I mean when I say that everything has been slowly streamlined into casual content. Fallout 3 through Elder Scrolls Online have seen a lot of dumbing down of Bethesda's IP's.

As I understand it, this can mostly be attributed to one man.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: TooDAMNMuch on May 27, 2017, 11:44:12 PM
slowly? they've been very bad since oblivion, skyrim did so well because of the popularity of fantasy vs sci-fi as a setting and nothing else really imo, it's a shame, was legitimately one of the worst elder scrolls games i've ever played, morrowind will always be the king of the series.

and don't even get me started on how bad fallout 4 was...
i'm actually amazed new vegas wasn't terrible the more i think about it, but that was obsidian doing all the important stuff and letting bethesda do the engine and nothing else (it's all they have talent for, clearly).
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: End Transmission on July 13, 2017, 08:36:36 PM
Quite happy with teh Skyrims myself.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
Post by: TheKobold on August 04, 2017, 09:03:40 AM
Oblivion turned into destroy the gate after a bit and thus turned tedious and boring, fallout 3 was good but lacked something that I could never put my finger on, fallout new vegas changed the mechanics too much for my taste but was probably their best game to bad they didn't actually make it, skyrim was a great game but the dungeons and mobs were way to generic which seemed to be a pattern the whole game followed, fallout 4 added the awesome but very shallow settlement mechanic and was so empty of actual story it really felt empty the dialog system was flat and meaningless the storyline was too linear and shallow.