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Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead => The Bunker - Gameplay, Tactics, and General Discussion => Topic started by: snow dwarf on April 11, 2017, 09:30:41 AM

Title: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: snow dwarf on April 11, 2017, 09:30:41 AM
I'm wondering if it is possible to make a character that does very little to no killing (not counting turrets), a passive guy who just wants to be left alone and maybe focus on computers  and crafting skills not combat. How possible and hard is it to be a pacifist towards everything?
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Coolthulhu on April 11, 2017, 09:36:37 AM
Yes, but you'd need to kite a lot to get good crafting tools.
And kiting usually involves someone else taking the hits due to infighting.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: snow dwarf on April 11, 2017, 09:40:24 AM
Yes, but you'd need to kite a lot to get good crafting tools.
And kiting usually involves someone else taking the hits due to infighting.
Well than this is out of question. I'm just thinking of a peaceful character, somebody who doesn't use meatshields.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: prytoclasm on April 11, 2017, 11:14:18 AM
You can try.

~ go out at night only
~ be silent
~ be VERY patient
~ plan far ahead, very far (a single fast enemy could be your very end, quickly)


Though, not sure if this will get you very far.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: hexman on April 11, 2017, 11:52:14 AM
Yes, but you'd need to kite a lot to get good crafting tools.
And kiting usually involves someone else taking the hits due to infighting.
Well than this is out of question. I'm just thinking of a peaceful character, somebody who doesn't use meatshields.

A pacifist build... interesting. I thought this idea had credibility only in Nethack but now that you mention it, I think it certainly possible.

Because lots of elements in DDA require fighting you might need to create your own strategy. I guess you could just loot and not harm any zeds but that would be difficult, esp. with hordes on. A good idea would be to build robots like manahacks (or turrets) to distract the zeds while you go in and loot but it requires high electronics for which you need books. Day-raids for this type of character would almost be suicidal but at night you can raid as much as you want as long as you know where particularly dangerous monsters are (like Brutes, Hulks, Shocker Brutes, etc) and don't get into trouble.

Remember, monsters that are faster than you will certainly wreck you. This includes most of the hostile wild-creatures (zombiefied or not) Mi Gos, Ferals, Brutes, and the like. Even a tough zombie on your tail could be hard to get rid of. If you see such monsters in the distance then the best choice would be to run away! even if that Mi Go is guarding those dead scientists which could potentially have a rare lab journal but you can't risk that much.

Getting a vehicle early would prove to be a boon because if you travel on foot then you'll almost certainly encounter all sorts of random critters who want to kill you (Bears, Zombears, Wolves, random Zeds, those pesky Zombie Scientists with lethal foohacks to name a few).

With sufficiently high electronics skill you can craft a control-laptop which might make things easier (since you can control machines with it).

It would certainly be a good idea to have NPC companions with you to do the fighting but I can't help you much here as I don't play with NPCs.

You could choose to make your base in the wilderness but that would present its own problems (because you'll have to hunt for food) so a base on the outskirts of a city would be better. I'd say you go ahead with a pacifist character and let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: §k on April 11, 2017, 01:52:43 PM
A pacifist plant mutant is viable.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: snow dwarf on April 11, 2017, 02:10:06 PM
Thanks guys, once I get around to creating a character like this I will let you know, but it might be a few weeks, because I'm playing a really cool and my first "true" survivor right now.
Edit: do you guys think hunting still applies as a pacifist thing to do?
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: TheWumpus on April 11, 2017, 02:34:16 PM
Thanks guys, once I get around to creating a character like this I will let you know, but it might be a few weeks, because I'm playing a really cool and my first "true" survivor right now.
Edit: do you guys think hunting still applies as a pacifist thing to do?

It's ok to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Coolthulhu on April 11, 2017, 03:10:26 PM
Edit: do you guys think hunting still applies as a pacifist thing to do?

If you're so pacifist that you refuse to re-kill violent abominations that only exist to kill, you should avoid killing even insects if you care about consistency.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: §k on April 11, 2017, 04:25:01 PM
Fungal man does not kill, but only fungalizes.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: deoxy on April 11, 2017, 05:29:48 PM
Fungal man does not kill, but only fungalizes.

Which often results directly in the death of the fungalized... that sounds a lot like "killing" to me.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Kevin Granade on April 11, 2017, 05:55:24 PM
An indispensable tool for pacifists is a noisemaker, if you can get monster attention without being seen and pull them away from a building you want to loot, you can make a lot of progress.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Rot on April 11, 2017, 06:02:39 PM
CDDA is basically murderhobo simulator.

Since my internet crashed before posting, I'll cut to the chase.

You can dig spiked pits and lure zeds into them, indirectly killing them. Cause hey, they just HAPPENED to fall in pits that you ACCIDENTALLY placed spears into.

Lure zombies into buildings and set them on fire. Noisemaker, as said above, can help in this.

Robots, turrets, and NPC's can do the dirty work.

It's all really up to you, you can allow ramming with vehicles or not use turrets or NPC's since they kill on your command.

Or be a level 5 pacifist and not eat plants either because they're alive and stuff.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: hexman on April 11, 2017, 06:37:31 PM
CDDA is basically murderhobo simulator.

Since my internet crashed before posting, I'll cut to the chase.

You can dig spiked pits and lure zeds into them, indirectly killing them. Cause hey, they just HAPPENED to fall in pits that you ACCIDENTALLY placed spears into.

Lure zombies into buildings and set them on fire. Noisemaker, as said above, can help in this.

Robots, turrets, and NPC's can do the dirty work.

It's all really up to you, you can allow ramming with vehicles or not use turrets or NPC's since they kill on your command.

Or be a level 5 pacifist and not eat plants either because they're alive and stuff.

I think what the OP means is that he does not directly kill anybody, not as a strategy or RP but as a challenge. I think the definition of NetHack's pacifist conduct should fit best here:
Quote
The pacifist conduct involves not actively killing any monster directly. Players must instead attack without killing, use a pet to do the dirty work, or simply run away.

A pacifist player nearly always uses a passive way of killing monsters, such as with a pet, or with a ring of conflict for larger groups. Wands of teleportation are used much more often, to move a difficult monster somewhere else instead of killing it.

-- Pacifist - NetHack Wiki

Because it is a challenge, not some sort of scenario where the main guy refuses to kill (which would definitely lead to him getting killed because that's how DDA is). And in my opinion, this would be a fun challenge to do; I'd like to see how it turns out.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Random_dragon on April 11, 2017, 08:02:26 PM
One recommendation I can suggest: If you can tolerate the encumbrance, being averse to killing doesn't preclude being well-armored. A shield especially is your friend, doubly so if you outright forgo wielding a weapon.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Azrad on April 11, 2017, 09:26:22 PM
Does the tazer still halt the target its used on for several turns? If so, that could be a good way to stop a zombie without killing them.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: snow dwarf on April 11, 2017, 11:09:11 PM
It's not only a challenge thing, it is also a roleplaying thingy as well.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Rot on April 12, 2017, 01:06:39 PM
One recommendation I can suggest: If you can tolerate the encumbrance, being averse to killing doesn't preclude being well-armored. A shield especially is your friend, doubly so if you outright forgo wielding a weapon.

I can see an end-game pacifist with heavy power armor just wading through hordes of zombies picking through the rubble of the world.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: snow dwarf on April 12, 2017, 01:28:16 PM
One recommendation I can suggest: If you can tolerate the encumbrance, being averse to killing doesn't preclude being well-armored. A shield especially is your friend, doubly so if you outright forgo wielding a weapon.

I can see an end-game pacifist with heavy power armor just wading through hordes of zombies picking through the rubble of the world.
We will see, because I'm thinking more of a character just going on the road with his messenger bag and his dog, trying to mind their own business. Maybe picking on the safe outskirts of towns.
Just him and the road ahead (insert some glorious movie ending music here).
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Random_dragon on April 12, 2017, 04:11:30 PM
One recommendation I can suggest: If you can tolerate the encumbrance, being averse to killing doesn't preclude being well-armored. A shield especially is your friend, doubly so if you outright forgo wielding a weapon.

I can see an end-game pacifist with heavy power armor just wading through hordes of zombies picking through the rubble of the world.

Does laughing at the zombies and their futile efforts to harm you count as pacifism?
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: §k on April 12, 2017, 04:59:30 PM
Speaking of pacifist with thick skin... I had a character in stable.

He wore power armor and tried to hack through the computer guarding some lab goodies, but he didn't knew about computer. Every time he hacked, a secubot or a manhack popped out. His computer skill went from 0 to 3 when he finally succeeded. By then the whole room was flocks of secubot swimming in waves of manhacks. For a moment I was afraid that he would starved inside the robotic walls. Fortunately he wiggled out. The robot army followed him through dissectors and exploded one by one.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Rot on April 20, 2017, 05:26:01 PM
^^^

These two posts are gold
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Zhilkin on April 21, 2017, 10:56:26 AM
I blaim my deathmobile in deaths of all of these poor zeds.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: StopSignal on April 22, 2017, 04:28:53 AM
I'd say be faster than everything that could eat you! Really fast. Until you get power armory, that is.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Alec White on April 22, 2017, 04:47:46 AM
I'm wondering if it is possible to make a character that does very little to no killing (not counting turrets)

It is possible, I tried doing a few runs as a middle school girl with RPish stats, so low strength and high dex/int to compensate.

Relied mainly on rollet skates to lure away zeds, traps(specially pits) and smoke bombs/molotovs when raiding cities and mainly stood away from them, living more on woods.
Although did quite some hunting so I don't know if hunting for food can be considered too violent.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: hexman on April 22, 2017, 05:09:10 AM
I'm wondering if it is possible to make a character that does very little to no killing (not counting turrets)
Relied mainly on rollet skates to lure away zeds, traps(specially pits) and smoke bombs/molotovs when raiding cities and mainly stood away from them, living more on woods.
Although did quite some hunting so I don't know if hunting for food can be considered too violent.

Though hunting is not a part of pacifism, I think it could be done as a part of survival. But then again, everything you do (including killing zeds) counts as a part of survival so I guess that's kind of a moot point.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: BeerBeer on April 25, 2017, 05:20:18 PM
Let's not forget about flashbangs! They give precious time to escape.

But let's talk philosophy. If you start a fire in a house, and a zombie walks into the house and dies, does it count as a kill? Or is it a kill only if it gets recorded in the 'kills' statistics? How much 'spinning' should be allowed (in PR terms)? Technically, whenever you start a new game, you are responsible for any deaths that happen during the game, intended or otherwise. And what if you whack a zombie with a bash weapon, sending it reeling backwards, giving you time to escape, and bit later the zombie dies at the claws of a wolf, but only because it was injured? Is the player responsible then? Or if a player lures a zombie towards a parked car, and then the zombie hits the fuel tank, thus starting a fire, and dies, does that count as a kill? How much must a person contribute to the zombie's demise before it counts as a kill? How much of the butterfly-effect (chain of events) is allowed in order to keep conscience clean, or to tarnish it? Or does the intent count? I didn't mean to kill it, therefore it doesn't count? I tried my absolute best to avoid zombie death (although I did nothing to protect their existence), therefore it doesn't count? Or should one go out of their way to isolate the zombies from danger?

Some helpful methods that I believe should help you retain your purity:
- Flashbangs
- Invisibility (optical cloak and the relevant CBM; both rare of course)
- High mobility (speed, dodge, low encumbrance, high STR for low relative carry load)
- Tear gas in moderation outdoors, against living creatures. Heavy use and indoor use will likely kill living things.
- Traps that immobilize.
- Scent maskers (smoke, tear gas, a relevant CBM)
- Stealth
- Audible distractions
- High STR might help move heavy furniture (shelves, fridges) to block the zombie path (doorways)
- STR increasers (alcohol, adrenaline syringes, STR CBMs)
- Adrenaline Pump CBM
- Thermal vision to see zombies; better ability to avoid conflict in the first place
- Parkour trait to better utilize obstacles during escape
- Painkillers and alcohol to endure pain in case you get targeted and hunted
- Tactics: luring zombies through buildings and closing doors behind you, buying you time; although risk of collapse if zombies destroy walls
- Good stamina, or at least not a bad one
- Oxygenator CBM
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Arek_PL on April 30, 2017, 05:44:28 PM
well, technicaly eating muschrooms and plants is not killing so you can hunt on triffids and fungaloids, you can alslo forage bushes in wild and raid empty camping sites
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: NuG on May 02, 2017, 02:34:00 PM
Maybe you could enable Magic Mod or Necromancy, and only allow yourself to use them in dire emergencies? OR use something like necromancy mod and use the raised zeds as meat shields, instead of NPCs, unless your against that too. I was thinking if it was the necromancy mod, you wouldn't be hurting any NPCs, so maybe that would be OK on a roleplay standpoint. I dunno, just suggetions to maybe help, but I'm new and haven't tried those mods yet, so YMMV.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: snow dwarf on May 04, 2017, 01:34:09 PM
I started a new playthrough and even though it's not the nonviolence character I'm still heading toward it, because I got out of a lab with no kills. I only used an Emp, but that's all (not really a true kill)
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Rot on May 04, 2017, 01:38:20 PM
I almost completely forgot zombie pheromones!

Does making zombies friendly and letting them kill other zombies count as pacifism? You're not directly killing anything anyway.

Actually, are zombie pheromones still in the game?
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: Alec White on May 04, 2017, 06:05:03 PM
Actually, are zombie pheromones still in the game?

Yup.

And as always, you technically are not the one doing the violence.
Title: Re: No violence character, is it possible?
Post by: leebash on May 06, 2017, 03:37:13 AM
I tried a similar approach (spend most of the time hunting, eating and sleeping). But the game became boring after a while.