Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - Official Forums

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead => Announcements => Topic started by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2013, 05:11:52 AM

Title: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2013, 05:11:52 AM
And we're off!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/568375735/cataclysm-dark-days-ahead-dedicated-developer

Discuss anything Kickstarter related here in this thread.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Avaa on June 22, 2013, 05:48:39 AM
Who is doing the doing the art/comics ?
They are hilarious ! The whole kickstarter page looks real fancy, too.
Nice Work :)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: i2amroy on June 22, 2013, 05:58:59 AM
That's Pthalocy! You can see some of his other stuff over in the Draw Your Cataclysms (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=450.0) thread.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Clayton on June 22, 2013, 06:43:39 AM
I really hope the DIY Survival Kit isn't taken before my payday /: haha.

But other than that, it looks great! Good job, guys.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Reservoir on June 22, 2013, 02:05:27 PM
First day and already 900 dollars. Ill be watching this kickstarter. Sadly I cannot donate. Im so, so sorry
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Squirrel on June 22, 2013, 03:03:48 PM
Eh, If I could donate, I really would. So sorry for my lack of money, but this looks very promising. Good luck and let's hope this will get on the most funded section of Kickstarter, heh.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Stevensonz on June 22, 2013, 03:15:53 PM
if you can't donate don't be sorry there other ways to help the game improve, promote the game to friends or through publicity (Art for example), share your thoughts and ideas in the forums, give detailed reports about bugs as long as it isn't a duplicate, learn coding and do easy fixes by using github.com (If your coding level is advance then start working on issues submitted in github like performance/crash issues)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kevin Granade on June 22, 2013, 03:48:08 PM
if you can't donate don't be sorry there other ways to help the game improve, promote the game to friends or through publicity (Art for example), share your thoughts and ideas in the forums, give detailed reports about bugs as long as it isn't a duplicate, learn coding and do easy fixes by using github.com (If your coding level is advance then start working on issues submitted in github like performance/crash issues)
This, totally.

Also if you can't back it due to payment processing issues, we should be setting up alternate means of accepting payment, which we would count toward stretch goals etc (I'm not sure about handling rewards via that, have to discuss that with GlyphGryph)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Chex Warrior on June 22, 2013, 03:56:24 PM
Long time lurker here, just wanted to wish the Kickstarter good luck, you have my support.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Nickboom on June 22, 2013, 05:40:35 PM
I shall be in the game.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: vultures on June 22, 2013, 11:05:39 PM
If you see random guys donating small ammounts, that was me.
I like your names, my name is irrelevant and - thank you for choosing a small mainstream for improving the game for all of us. I think of y'alls whenever I install a game on a computer.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on June 22, 2013, 11:29:15 PM
Hmm.  What's included in building/NPC designs?  The descriptions are a bit vague: could I specify something nifty (rapier/Robots Fun&Profit/Mutagen stockpile?) inside the house/building, or does it only let me specify that the bed goes *here* and not there?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: assviberator on June 23, 2013, 02:10:30 AM
will be funding soon bought tons of ps3 games for 50 bucks i think this game at least deserves that
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Dzlan on June 23, 2013, 02:38:42 AM
Whats this about Auckland, NZ at the top right? Are you guys actually here in New Zealand!!!???? In Auckland?
My mate showed me and we are very curious...
What does that mean?
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kickstarter.com%2Fprojects%2F568375735%2Fcataclysm-dark-days-ahead-dedicated-developer%3Fref%3Dcity&h=iAQE1mc7W

I havn't got any money and am not allowed to spend it online anyway, otherwise I would gladly donate. : ) But I will get as many people as I can to hear about this one and hopefully support this.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Aggrons_shell on June 23, 2013, 03:10:08 AM
-has 50 dollars to donate
-Kickstarter has rewards for 40$ and 60$
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

But really, I think i will gladly donate, but, what happens with the money if the funding is unsucsessful? I don't want to donate 50$ to the guys over at kickstarter, i want Catalcysm: DDA to become more freaking amazing. Also, i love how Aavak did the video of the game footage. That was pretty nice. Best of luck to all you kickstarter-ers?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Scheuche on June 23, 2013, 03:36:44 AM
@aggron I think you're able to change the amount of money to 50$ and get the 40$ Reward for it.
And if im not going complete retard here, the way kickstarter works is, that it only takes your money if the goal is reached.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: i2amroy on June 23, 2013, 04:39:18 AM
-has 50 dollars to donate
-Kickstarter has rewards for 40$ and 60$

But really, I think i will gladly donate, but, what happens with the money if the funding is unsucsessful? I don't want to donate 50$ to the guys over at kickstarter, i want Catalcysm: DDA to become more freaking amazing. Also, i love how Aavak did the video of the game footage. That was pretty nice. Best of luck to all you kickstarter-ers?
As Scheuche mentioned, you have an opportunity to change the amount that you donate if you want to donate more then your specific tier when you select the tier.

And if not enough money is raised then the charge never actually goes through. Your 50 dollars would end up remaining yours, completely unharmed.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: ArgusTheCat on June 23, 2013, 05:37:35 AM
I have already spent over fifty solid hours playing Cataclysm, sometimes to the exclusion of sleep.  At this point, I figure dropping $10 on you guys is the least I could do.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Stevensonz on June 23, 2013, 12:04:21 PM
I see good results 2nd day and past the quarter mark :) if we spread more publicity I figure we could hit the goal at at the 15th-20th day.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Mark001 on June 23, 2013, 05:35:44 PM
Hey I found a little typo in the KS page:

But others don't - they like pictures, and animations, and things that actually look sort-a kind-a maybe like the objects their supposed to be representing.

*They're

Good luck! I already told some friends about it!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Dzlan on June 24, 2013, 04:59:08 AM
Whats this about Auckland, NZ at the top right? Are you guys actually here in New Zealand!!!???? In Auckland?
My mate showed me and we are very curious...
What does that mean?

Nice one so far, already almost half way. I've been watching and testing development of this game right from the moment I heard of it.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on June 24, 2013, 05:04:55 PM
When I first saw the kickstarter it sounded like you were trying to monitize a free game. Now I see you are trying to higher someone to get some work done full time. I'll donate tonight or tomorrow. Probably at the $40 range. How do I send in the diagram of the house I want? What tool do you want it delivered in?

you should probably start a new thread on bay12games about this kickstarter. The Cataclysm DDA is so long many people wont notice it. you might want to put it on some other gaming/rogue like forums as well.

Who is Clever Ravin, the creator of the kickstarter on these forums?
Can you post info about the 2 developers you are working with and what there experience level is?
how long will they work on this?

$7000 is not much of a salary. How long will they work for this? What country is this person in? Is this person an existing modder? You should post the developers bio (you can leave out full names , locations, employer names), but more info might get more people.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 24, 2013, 06:26:32 PM
I actually did start a seperate thread on the Bay12 forum - people seem insistent on reading it and then responding in the other one, so it keeps getting buried.

Details of the house plan are whatever is convenient for you, basically. We've got a limited enough number of slots that we'll contact you by e-mail afterwards to work it out. Any image should be fine, or even a clear textual description (image would be better).

Clever Raven is the development group associated with the game - It's composed of myself, Kevin Granade, and Ethan Kaminski, who's full-time hire is the primary goal of the Kickstarter. Kevin is an engineer at an aeronautical company who's probably our most dedicated coder and has been working on Cataclysm since back in the Whales days, and Ethan is a freelance developer who's been working in the industry for a while and has contributed to the project for several months - his name is Soron on github. If something happens to Soron, GalenEvil is our backup and he's prepared to take over, he's contributed to the game for a while. I'll be working on getting a full bio for everyone out as an update sooner rather than later, and you'll be able to see far more about all these people (and myself)

$7000 is, indeed, not much - but it's for 3 months of development time, so it's certainly livable. The stretch goals will hopefully get us up to a year if we hit them all, but our initial aims are a bit lower.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Deon on June 24, 2013, 07:41:19 PM
Yeah, thanks for that thread, I just had 20$ laying around which I wanted to spend on some stupid game. Now they did not go to waste!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Clayton on June 24, 2013, 08:06:24 PM
"You can tell a lot about a man by what games he's backed on Kickstarter" - Clayton
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: i2amroy on June 24, 2013, 08:13:41 PM
Halfway there! Woot!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on June 24, 2013, 08:28:09 PM
Holy crap I did not think this many people would be seeing my silly doodles. Or that they'd actually be part of something important. Colour me surprised.

But that's not why I'm here!

My friend Kelly Tsvahl gave us a shout-out on the news tab of her webcomic Under the Dead Skies (http://underthedeadskies.thewebcomic.com/)!! (don't mind the NSFW warning, that's there for gorey zombie violence). I didn't ask her to do this, but she loves the game a TON and wanted to help share. I thought it only fair I give her a little signal boost too. With any luck, zombie fans can meet zombie fans for both fandom group's benefits.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kevin Granade on June 24, 2013, 10:30:41 PM
Oh no!!! a webcomic!

Pthalocy uses web comic reference, it's super effective.

readreadreadreadreadreadread....
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on June 25, 2013, 12:12:09 AM
I actually did start a seperate thread on the Bay12 forum - people seem insistent on reading it and then responding in the other one, so it keeps getting buried.

Details of the house plan are whatever is convenient for you, basically. We've got a limited enough number of slots that we'll contact you by e-mail afterwards to work it out. Any image should be fine, or even a clear textual description (image would be better).

Clever Raven is the development group associated with the game - It's composed of myself, Kevin Granade, and Ethan Kaminski, who's full-time hire is the primary goal of the Kickstarter. Kevin is an engineer at an aeronautical company who's probably our most dedicated coder and has been working on Cataclysm since back in the Whales days, and Ethan is a freelance developer who's been working in the industry for a while and has contributed to the project for several months - his name is Soron on github. If something happens to Soron, GalenEvil is our backup and he's prepared to take over, he's contributed to the game for a while. I'll be working on getting a full bio for everyone out as an update sooner rather than later, and you'll be able to see far more about all these people (and myself)

$7000 is, indeed, not much - but it's for 3 months of development time, so it's certainly livable. The stretch goals will hopefully get us up to a year if we hit them all, but our initial aims are a bit lower.

OK, that kinda helps.  But what happened to TDW??
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2013, 01:28:36 AM
TDW is still around, just really busy lately. He said he'll probably return to regular contributions once things calm down a bit for him.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Senrain on June 25, 2013, 04:27:35 PM
Le sigh. This is not a place fo you to advertise or insult people. Technically, no place on this forum is the place for the second.
-GlyphGryph

I don't believe you.

It's beyond me how did you ever get other contributors to go along with this shameless stunt and why would anyone give you their free time and still contribute after this, but I can tell you my contributions were a gift for everyone, not for you to take the credit or make money with.

You are selling what was gifted, it's like taking money from a charity basket.

You don't have my permission to use any of my code for any kind of money related scams like this, and if it was not for me your game would still be glitching instead of animating, remember? You dragged those most insane and embarrassing bugs for years and you still can't fix the simplest of things even after I told you exactly what and where the problems are. So how do you find appropriate to be promising any new features when your game is still randomly freezing and crashing, when you are unable to sort out the bugs in even the most basic and essential parts of the code? How can you promise smarter NPCs when you can not even stop them from crashing the game? How can you promise improved z-levels when you can not even make monsters use stairs properly?

For the last several releases you somehow managed to increase the number of bugs, breaking even those things which were working before. On the other hand, and in the same time, I not only fixed all the bugs, but also rigorously tested, polished and balanced everything to work properly to the smallest details, plus made the game many times faster and smoother, implemented music and sound effects, above ground z-levels and added many other amazing new features, in-game actions and game-play mechanics making whole of the game not only working properly but also richer, more interesting, more tactical, and immensely more enjoyable to play.

I could also make in less than a week, if not just a day, any other of your hopeful dreams that were promised, and I'd do it for free, again many times better than all the money in this world could help Soron, or any one of you clueless wannabe developers, to ever make. So it doesn't really compute why should anyone give you any money for something that is not yours and is so annoyingly broken it's barely playable despite all the time and futile efforts you have already wasted in it. I don't see any reason why would anyone even still play that broken build or place their hopes in an empty promise when there is this available right now and it's for free:

LazyCat, donating to the Kickstarter is optional for people wanting to support the game. No one is obligated to pay money, but a lot of people are willing to. Please don't insult people, we're all friends here and I think that everyone could get further ahead by working with each other instead of fighting.

Edited to remove the advertisement in the quote at least.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on June 26, 2013, 06:50:25 AM
Re Homesteader: Are those restricted to "houses", or can they be anything?

(Uh, if I can't have the Combat Monster running around, I'd at least like to update his Lab base to modern spec and let players find it....not sure whether leaving a corpse would be worthwhile.)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 26, 2013, 02:02:27 PM
They should be "homes", but we're interpreting that very loosely.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on June 26, 2013, 11:37:11 PM
OK, thanks.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Tee on June 26, 2013, 11:38:55 PM
I would like to call dibs on making my 'home' be a small apartment over a chinese resturaunt! I'll be donating soon.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Stevensonz on June 27, 2013, 08:14:14 AM
tile sets are gonna be awesome and I think it's gonna be available as an option so you can play with ASCII or Tile set. already past 50% mark Kickstarter is doing great.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Rivet on June 27, 2013, 08:41:25 PM
Okay I just dropped my $40 into the 'HUNTER Tier' slot on Kickstarter. I'm still not entirely clear on what all the 'reward' part means, or how it's supposed to be followed through.

Anybody know how that works?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Tee on June 27, 2013, 09:16:19 PM
Okay I just dropped my $40 into the 'HUNTER Tier' slot on Kickstarter. I'm still not entirely clear on what all the 'reward' part means, or how it's supposed to be followed through.

Anybody know how that works?

Once NPCs work correctly, you'll get to design one that'll show up in the game.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Rivet on June 27, 2013, 11:16:00 PM
Then she'll be the coolest NPC of them all!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Tee on June 27, 2013, 11:26:14 PM
Then she'll be the coolest NPC of them all!

She better be.
7 feet tall, 200 pounds of pure muscle. They call her the Murder Machine.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on June 28, 2013, 04:46:39 AM
Then she'll be the coolest NPC of them all!

She better be.
7 feet tall, 200 pounds of pure muscle. They call her the Murder Machine.

I was kinda hoping for the fannypack & Snuggie Chainsaw Maniac* from the Draw Your Cataclysms thread.  Pure muscle (=Chunk of Meat) just sits there going rotten.

*Why yes, I do own a copy of Zombies Ate My Neighbors.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Benedict on July 02, 2013, 05:08:29 PM
Heh. Small world. I know Jordy Lakiere, the artist for the poster, from the Taleworlds forums, which I used to visit back when I was about 13.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Reservoir on July 04, 2013, 11:31:52 PM
474 dollars away from the goal. Lets start bakin' cakes and buying Coke and prostitutes, drugs and private DJs, shall we?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Squirrel on July 05, 2013, 08:10:31 AM
I just hope it keeps going at this pace and faster, because stretch goals. Damn this game will be impressive. (Well, more impressive than it already is, hehe)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: i2amroy on July 06, 2013, 08:08:25 PM
We've made it! Woot! $7104 raised!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: 100Rads on July 06, 2013, 08:11:11 PM
Congrats! I hope we make all the stretch goals too!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: kenoxite on July 07, 2013, 06:58:00 AM
Congrats on your success!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on July 07, 2013, 09:18:13 PM
Hmm. I have some work to do!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 08, 2013, 02:59:19 PM
where does the developer Sean live? The wage he is willing to work for is absurdly low for an American. It is less than entry level developer pay and does not include benefits. As far as quitting his job to work on this, are you sure you can get back to work when your done?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kevin Granade on July 08, 2013, 04:01:50 PM
I can't speak to the wage, but Sean is an independent contractor, so he transitions from contract to contract regularly, so this is less disruptive for him than for those of us with long-term jobs. (One of the reasons it's not me getting hired.)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on July 08, 2013, 07:56:07 PM
@youtoo: I live in Alabama. The area I live in has a pretty low cost of living so I can effectively stretch out the KS money by about an extra month and a half once the contract period is completed. Kevin covered the other bits so I won't rehash them :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 08, 2013, 08:21:21 PM
I am seriously tempted to make a comment about India outsourcing jobs to alabama in order to cut wages. However,  I will restrain myself.

gratz on hitting the 7k. I was worried that when we got to 3500 right away we tapped out the fan base. However, word seems to be spreading. This is pretty good for an open source roguelike.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Aggrons_shell on July 09, 2013, 08:19:07 AM
Now, I am really hoping that we make the 16k stretch goal, but something in my mind says thats not going to happen, so what if once they funding is over, the whole team of cleaver raven works with sean on whats he is doing when they have time, sort of as a way of stretching the funds. Just an idea thatifyoudonotacceptiwillsendanarmyofbearsandjabberwockstoyourhouseatmidnight
*twitch*
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: i2amroy on July 11, 2013, 06:44:45 AM
Now, I am really hoping that we make the 16k stretch goal, but something in my mind says thats not going to happen, so what if once they funding is over, the whole team of cleaver raven works with sean on whats he is doing when they have time, sort of as a way of stretching the funds. Just an idea thatifyoudonotacceptiwillsendanarmyofbearsandjabberwockstoyourhouseatmidnight
*twitch*
I'm fairly certain that I personally might be chipping in from time to time to help things along with some others (though some of the most complex stuff goes a little bit over my head personally). We'll also be busy diversifying things a bit, so that when Sean adds in a framework we fill in some of the different applications of that framework. After all the stretch goals are still eventual goals for the CleverRaven team, we're just trying to speed development by getting one of us to work on it at full time. :)

I've still got fairly high hopes about the kickstarter though, many kickstarters have been known to pull in quite a bit, especially as they approach the end of their time period.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 11, 2013, 03:44:32 PM
if this goes well, we could always hold another kickstarter. good chance that you show you do a good job and people may be more likely to pay. plus if this adds alot of features and the word gets out , the community will get bigger.

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 11, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
We'll probably do a "running donation drive bit" - and if we hit goals while he continues to work, we'll stick them on top and get him more time (and it won't be through Kickstarter, so we'll save a bit of cash).

If we run out though, depending on how successful it was, we'll probably wait several months, probably until next year and then give it another go.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 12, 2013, 03:30:01 PM
I heard kickstarter charges alot.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on July 19, 2013, 10:51:48 PM
I looked at the Kickstarter ToS yesterday, and won't be able to join.  The stuff about no warranties or guarantees (even against their getting hacked) kinda worries me when it comes to financial information.  I've already had one hacking scare.  :-(

If it's acceptable to work through someone else (I pay them, they increase their pledge, I handle the rest of it) let me know, please.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 20, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
Kickstarter never touches your financial info though, and I think Amazon DOES have guarantees on that front?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: STD on July 20, 2013, 08:12:57 PM
Ah, good to see Roguelikes getting some love (and funding) via Kickstarter.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: CarrierPrimoris on July 22, 2013, 05:16:32 AM
I present a plastic bottle of congratulations (400) to the developers for the successful kickstarter campaign.
May you all never get chased through a megastore by a zombie hulk.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Vronkio on July 22, 2013, 05:33:49 AM
Congrats on the successful funding.

-snip- got cleared on the matter by reading the kickstarter again
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Rivet on July 22, 2013, 09:07:19 AM
We did it! And not only did we make the deadline, we overshot the goal by a bunch of money!

Take that, hatercat!

Go Team Cataclysm!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on July 22, 2013, 10:12:25 AM
Banned Lazycat again, cleaned up his BS, etc.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Rivet on July 22, 2013, 10:19:50 AM
Thank you once again for being so fast and so awesome!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on July 22, 2013, 11:03:22 AM
Banned Lazycat, yet again... removed posts
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 22, 2013, 03:22:40 PM
grats guys. I was skeptical of this at first. I donated $60. Good Luck.

try to get Toady to play... I'd be curious if he liked the game.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Drakasin on July 22, 2013, 06:59:51 PM
Congratulations and stuff, this game deserves it!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on July 22, 2013, 07:53:00 PM
My money has failed to send via amazon due to my bank card being too Canadian. I will work out alternative means of getting the cash to the cause.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Cenobite on July 22, 2013, 08:10:53 PM
It's awesome to see the Kickstarter completed with more than enough money to get things going! It shows that games like these can really entertain and make an impact on people, despite the minimal graphics and such!

Congratulations on the Kickstarter, developers!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: vultures on July 22, 2013, 08:28:02 PM
Good ole' fun beats the black's gray once more!
Bring the ale, hide the horses, tie the women! :-P
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: STD on July 22, 2013, 09:27:28 PM
What you need to do with trolls and the like is send me to them. I will infect everything they know and everything they know knows.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on July 22, 2013, 09:57:42 PM
I would save the infection for something more worthwhile.


I shall wait for later this week when a post is made for those who want to contribute post-kickstarter, since that seems to be how I'm going to add to the fun. Besides the comic thing that's close to done. I gotta do that as soon as I'm not working...
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Cinghiale on July 23, 2013, 03:42:29 AM
try to get Toady to play... I'd be curious if he liked the game.

According to the NYT article Toady is highly critical of genetically inferior, non-Dwarf Fortress subraces, but yeah, I'd be interested to know if this meets his onerous standards.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on July 23, 2013, 03:58:21 AM
My money has failed to send via amazon due to my bank card being too Canadian. I will work out alternative means of getting the cash to the cause.
I think they will set up a running donation system after the funding runs out. But if you are still too Canadian then you could probably PM an admin for their address and mail them an envelope of cash.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on July 23, 2013, 05:42:34 AM
My money has failed to send via amazon due to my bank card being too Canadian. I will work out alternative means of getting the cash to the cause.
I think they will set up a running donation system after the funding runs out. But if you are still too Canadian then you could probably PM an admin for their address and mail them an envelope of cash.

I raised the latter suggestion more generally.  Seemed less-than-optimal.  No matter; glad it's looking well.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on July 23, 2013, 06:20:12 AM
I am transferring money via paypal. I understand the complaints against it, but it will still serve the minimum purpose of transferring my promised pledge. I added extra cash to account for what it will attempt to consume for the sake of Doing Business. I am alright with that. I pay taxes all the damn time, see previous nationality issue.

All will work out in the end! I just need to know where to send the money once the transfer it complete (debit transfer is slow)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 25, 2013, 03:20:35 PM
so when does the developer start?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on July 26, 2013, 02:06:38 AM
@youtoo: Pretty much whenever GlyphGryph says it's time to start working. This will be after all of the KS funds have been processed so that we know exactly how much money there is to be used. Should be within a few days of the 6th of August if all of it comes in within 2 weeks from KS end.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Albert on July 26, 2013, 09:16:17 AM
@youtoo: Pretty much whenever GlyphGryph says it's time to start working. This will be after all of the KS funds have been processed so that we know exactly how much money there is to be used. Should be within a few days of the 6th of August if all of it comes in within 2 weeks from KS end.

What is GlyphGryph waiting for? What is he have to do with when you are going to start working? Do you need money in advance? Are they not supposed to pay you only when the job is done anyway?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 26, 2013, 02:11:08 PM
He'll be starting very soon. The money just came through - I wanted to make sure I knew exactly how much we had (Amazon's rates vary) and that he'd know how much we'd be paying him.  Our total came out to $8,184.82422 (whooo).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on July 26, 2013, 03:20:19 PM
Oh noses, we are being short changed by .00422 of a dollar, that is almost a half penny (http://www.usacoinbook.com/us-coins/classic-head-half-cent.jpg). Oh noses
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 26, 2013, 04:01:20 PM
kickstarter and paypal took $1300 of our money?

what is the fee structure. we need to switch to something else. That is WAY too much overhead.

not your fault, but thats ridiculous.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on July 26, 2013, 04:36:27 PM
kickstarter and paypal took $1300 of our money?

what is the fee structure. we need to switch to something else. That is WAY too much overhead.

not your fault, but thats ridiculous.
That's about 15% overall, using 2 sigfigs. I think that kickstarter is taking the majority for it's server costs. IDK.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 26, 2013, 04:54:36 PM
And Sean will be expected to pay at least 15% tax on that when he receives it, since US law requires that if the amount is less than around 110,000. If you make more than that you only have to pay like 2% I think, though I only skimmed over that bit.

Isn't fundraising amazing.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on July 26, 2013, 05:34:53 PM
Mind telling us what state he is in? We could probably find some legal loophole that prevents taxes on either below min wage workers or for crowd funded project like thing.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on July 27, 2013, 04:27:19 AM
I am still fucking waiting on paypal. They like to make me do extra spins on my wheelie chair in impatience since I'm in Canada.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: EMX on July 27, 2013, 06:36:39 PM
I am still fucking waiting on paypal. They like to make me do extra spins on my wheelie chair in impatience since I'm in Canada.

PayPal is no better for US residents. They just plain suck.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 29, 2013, 01:54:09 AM
Pthalocy, don't worry about it. Just get your comic done, and your contribution will be complete. Considering all you've done already you can basically have your choice of tiers in my opinion. :P

(And we'll have a proper update button go up some time next month for the continuation project)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Albert on July 29, 2013, 06:36:35 AM
Kickstarter update:
Quote
... $7,911. That's a decent amount of money!

So what's going to happen with it?

Well, Sean technically starts work on Monday, tomorrow. I say technically because he's actually already started this weekend, but tomorrow will be the first day he gets paid for it. He'll be working until at least November 11th, which is a span of 104 days. He'll be making $104.09/day, a rate of about $13.01 an hour.

Didn't you say he will only be paid after he makes what is he supposed to make and if he actually makes it?

Beside main three Kickstarter goals, what other features will be there for that total sum of money in that period of time?

Can you give us more details about upcoming features - in particular, what will be the tile size? Who made or is making the tileset, can you show some example screenshots? How will z-levels fit in the game, what will player be able to do with them?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on July 29, 2013, 06:48:35 AM
Didn't you say he will only be paid after he makes what is he supposed to make and if he actually makes it?

Beside main three Kickstarter goals, what other features will be there for that total sum of money in that period of time?

Can you give us more details about upcoming features - in particular, what will be the tile size? Who made or is making the tileset, can you show some example screenshots? How will z-levels fit in the game, what will player be able to do with them?

The three main goals are what we are shooting for, and as GG said, they planned conservitively so that once he completes those tasks he will go onto the strech goals (woohoo go stealth).

The tile size is currently disputed IIRC, some people are discussing it over on the Lab forum board, so stop by there and chat with them. IIRC the tileset that will be merged into the game will be a community created set, so I might donate my tiles of zombies along with ABC's tileset of houseparts, and DEF's pieces for a car. Then this way everybody contributes.

Z levels. Height. So they will give us the ability to move up and down. This will help with apartments, hotels, trenches, mines and other stuffs. With z levels we can do all sorts of fun stuff like drop grand pianos from the top floor of apartments, or push zombies to make a nice splat on the ground (maybe), jump between buildings (ninja style). But most of the z level abilities are still in the planning phase IIRC, so if you want some feature(s) added suggest them on the drawing board forum board.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on July 29, 2013, 07:01:11 AM
Pushing zeds will send them to the ground.  That sort of inter-level interaction was one of the reasons an earlier implementation wasn't acceptable--stuff thrown off a level either disappeared or just floated in empty space.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Albert on July 29, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Otaku
The three main goals are what we are shooting for, and as GG said, they planned conservitively so that once he completes those tasks he will go onto the strech goals (woohoo go stealth).

The tile size is currently disputed IIRC, some people are discussing it over on the Lab forum board, so stop by there and chat with them. IIRC the tileset that will be merged into the game will be a community created set, so I might donate my tiles of zombies along with ABC's tileset of houseparts, and DEF's pieces for a car. Then this way everybody contributes.

Z levels. Height. So they will give us the ability to move up and down. This will help with apartments, hotels, trenches, mines and other stuffs. With z levels we can do all sorts of fun stuff like drop grand pianos from the top floor of apartments, or push zombies to make a nice splat on the ground (maybe), jump between buildings (ninja style). But most of the z level abilities are still in the planning phase IIRC, so if you want some feature(s) added suggest them on the drawing board forum board.

Didn't they say he will only get paid after he makes what is he supposed to make and if he actually makes it?


Why do you expect community will create the tileset, or that it would be any good?


There is no yet design specification for z-levels against which the work will be evaluated?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on July 29, 2013, 09:10:13 AM
Not sure about his pay. Could go either way, I would just wait until GG logs in and sees this or until GalenEvil (the hired prgrammer's handle) sees it. They will know more about it.

They dont expect the community to do so. They could just as easily take an open tileset from one of the other pixel artists out on the interwebs, but the community wants to help, so they did what they could.

There sorta is. They know what they want, they want XYZ* (I am not sure what those are), but they are still open to suggestions from the community.

* XYZ is IIRC something like things will fall if nothing is supporting them (both furniture, zombies and other things thrown into midair. They also have plans to make the Z levels work so that you can go into apartments. I also think that jumping will be added in, so that you can jump between buildings.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kaet on July 29, 2013, 11:33:54 AM
Why do you expect community will create the tileset, or that it would be any good?
There is a lot of interest in the tileset support and a handful of talented pixel artists have already said that they are more than willing to make a tileset when the support is there.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Albert on July 30, 2013, 07:53:10 AM
GlyphGryph,

Didn't you say the developer will only get paid after he makes what is he supposed to make, and only if he actually makes it? What exactly is the job specification and features description according to which the work will be evaluated? What is he making, precisely, according to what instructions and under whose supervision?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 30, 2013, 02:36:43 PM
He'll get paid after he puts the work in. The project was to acquire developer hours to spend on the projects listed in the Kickstarter. When he puts in those hours, he'll get paid for that time - the point of what I stated on the Kickstarter was that he won't just be getting the money upfront, and we don't have to worry about him running off with it or something. Since the whole purpose of the Kickstarter was to provide him with the funds he needed to dedicate this time to the game, not paying him anything until after his work was finished would be... kind of nonsensical. And doesn't really make sense with the stated purpose of the Kickstarter.

As for the details and specs, we'll have full specs for each project as we go - developing those specs is part of his job, albeit one the other devs will surely be helping with. He's operating under my and Kevin's supervision.

Tileset-wise, the goal is not to require a fixed size for the tiles, so that you can plug and play any community created tileset you want in. He won't be making a tileset himself, he's not an artist, but luckily we've got plenty of people supporting the project who are.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 30, 2013, 04:48:24 PM
i have gotten mixed up with who the developer is now. CAn you post it on the main page? When does he start?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on July 30, 2013, 05:06:57 PM
Pthalocy, don't worry about it. Just get your comic done, and your contribution will be complete. Considering all you've done already you can basically have your choice of tiers in my opinion. :P

(And we'll have a proper update button go up some time next month for the continuation project)

Fixed a lot of problems with it yesterday, gonna art again today and tomorrow. Silently sobbing for a faster art-hand but that's what life gave me to work with. I appreciate the sentiments, my intention remains unchanged. GONNA DO A DONATE
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Albert on July 30, 2013, 06:43:30 PM
As for the details and specs, we'll have full specs for each project as we go - developing those specs is part of his job, albeit one the other devs will surely be helping with. He's operating under my and Kevin's supervision.

Do you not know what do you want, and whatever he comes up will be ok? There must certain criteria and specific set of goals according to which you can evaluate the work, or progress. What about specific functionalities you mentioned on the Kickstarter, "mutant buzzards flying far above your head" and "opening up fire on the crowd in the parking lot below"? Is that specific promise or uncertain possibility?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 30, 2013, 08:18:04 PM
Those are general promises. It might not end up being mutant buzzards, but it will certainly be something flying overhead. The point of the z-level implementation (and the reason why existing implementations aren't good enough) is to have different levels where you can actually interact between them, a la dwarf fortress. In fact, that should serve as a decent guide for the kind of thing you can expect there.

But here's, specifically, what we'll be going for (although this was already explained pretty well in the Kickstarter I think)

Tileset support - we'll be implementing a graphical system so that various tilesets/spritesets can be introduced into the game by users. You'll be able to use any tileset that has been made for it. We'll also be supporting basic animations. Pretty much any detail beyond that is technical stuff and backend stuff that would only really be of interest to developers.

Worldbuilder tool - This has been described in detail in a few places, but you don't seem particularly interested in this one (and it's by far the most complicated) so I'll skip it for now.

Z-levels - Specifically, we will be implementing a system that allows multiple vertical levels that exist in the same "space", so that interactions between the levels are possible. Things gettings pushed or thrown or jumping off roofs, attacking from above/being able to attack from above, and units that can control movement between z-levels outside are all requirements for this section... in addition to being practically all the requirements. I expect the flying AIs to be pretty dumb, since the AI rewrite is something else entirely. There's a chance buildings might leave floating chunks, for performance and expediency reasons, since we didn't get the extra z-level stuff stretch goal which would have focused on construction and z-level architecture handling. But the bits that would primarily impact gameplay, being able to look and interact and move across z-levels, are what's being promised here. Multi-z-level vehicles will probably not be in, but vehicles WILL be able to move between z-levels.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Albert on July 30, 2013, 09:00:29 PM
Ok, that's what I wanted to know. So there will be two separate windows to display level above and below, next to main terrain window, like in DF?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on July 31, 2013, 03:56:04 PM
The full time developer should work on the hard stuff that requires long blocks of time. This stuff is hard to do part time when you have a job and a life. You need to plow through this kind of thing and that requires a full time person. The easier stuff (and often more visible stuff since its new content) can be better handled by the part time guys.

I dont see how its possible to have full and perfect specs for something like this. I think the group of part time developers have proven they can produce.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 31, 2013, 06:00:31 PM
Ok, that's what I wanted to know. So there will be two separate windows to display level above and below, next to main terrain window, like in DF?

It's a possibility - at the very least it will have the DF fortress mode model of "you can get an idea of the stuff that's below you but have to manually look up to see the stuff that's above you". After all, no one ever looks up. We've got the compass, which DF doesn't have, to point out things of immediate interest, and we might end up expanding that instead of doing the two-screen system. So you'll spot things that are moving that are potential threats out quite a distance thanks to the compass, but you'll have to manually look around to see things on other levels.

Unlike DF, our terrain will remain predominantly flat, so there's less immediate need to always see what's above and below you immediately.

There's also a chance we'll end up implementing it slightly differently for the tile version, where layering and greying things out or something might be more effective.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Rivet on July 31, 2013, 07:43:14 PM
I just had a thought for a fun game mechanic!

Custom world generation.

For example, when starting a new game world folder, it could throw you options for everything you want to include/exclude, basically giving us the ability to have our own variants similar to the classic zombies mode.

Don't like mutant bees, but like laboratories? Turn off one but leave the other. Or maybe you like labs but you hate the scary Lovecraftian monsters, so you could just disable them so that when you explore a lab you don't have to worry about becoming a carbon-based snack for an nth dimensional fungus from the Plains of Leng. Or maybe you want to go zed-less and remove all forms of zombies and replace them with cities overrun with triffids.

In a nutshell what I'm suggesting is a custom world generation system that works like a huge bank of toggle switches we can go through to get just exactly the sort of Cataclysm we want. I have no idea if this would be doable or not, I just thought it might be worth suggesting.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on July 31, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
@Rivet: That's just about how I imagined the World Factory to function, though specific implementation is up in the air until I finish Tile Support.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: daftigod on August 01, 2013, 01:26:33 PM
I'd be willing to discuss professional (paid) tileset work if you guys are interested. There's already have alot of unreleased stuff for Fat Dog just sitting around waiting for tile support!

Congrats on hitting your kickstarter goal!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 01, 2013, 04:44:16 PM
The full time developer should work on the hard stuff that requires long blocks of time. This stuff is hard to do part time when you have a job and a life. You need to plow through this kind of thing and that requires a full time person. The easier stuff (and often more visible stuff since its new content) can be better handled by the part time guys.
This is very true, there's another issue though.  I'm not complaining or anything, but just so you're aware, you *already* have a full-time dev, I don't track my time closely, but I put in roughly 40hrs a week on DDA nights and weekends, but about 90% of my time goes to review/merge/test of other people's work, leaving me little to no time to work on large features.
I dont see how its possible to have full and perfect specs for something like this. I think the group of part time developers have proven they can produce.
The Z-level thing for example is deceptively simple, currently the game tracks a 131x131 square area roughly centered on the player.  Inside this area we do line-of-sight, dynamic lighting, scent diffusion, field propogation (fire, smoke, etc), active item updates (draining flashlight batteries, burning fuses on dynamite), vehicle movement, monster/NPC AI and interactions.  This is basically all of the game logic.
To make z-levels work the way we want, this dynamically-updated area has to be turned into a 131x131x21 area.
Step one is making the changes to expand the area, this is a TON of detail work, because pretty much all the code assumes that there is NO interaction between Z-levels.
That's the easy part, at this point the game will run roughly 20 TIMES SLOWER*, then we need to do [MAGIC PROGRAMMING STUFF] to make it go fast again.
In parallel with [MAGIC PROGRAMMING STUFF], we have to figure out how to actually display and interact with a 3D environment in a roguelike, which is mostly unheard of, we'll have to INVENT new ways of interfacing with the game in a way that doesn't make the game as difficult to play as QWOP (or worse, DF*).
The features we want are fairly straightforward and well-understood (other than the UI part, the hard part there is precisely in planning it), but will take a *huge* amount of detail and optimization work to implement.

* 20 times slower is optomistic actually, because we have various algorithms we run that are barely sub-exponential, which means that increasing the number of tiles processed can increase the amount of work by a factor higher than one, e.g. it takes 520 line-drawing operatons to do LOS checking now (we draw a line to each tile on the border of the 121x121 square, so 120x4 lines(the corners are shared, so 120 instead of 121)), but in 3D, we have to draw a line to each square on each face of a 121x121x21 regular hexahedron, meaning... *drumroll* (121*121)*2 + (119*21)*4, or 39,278 lines 0_0  So with a naive approach, that operation will take 75 TIMES as long to execute, and is already highly optomised to make dynamic lighting work, a few months ago I added optimzations to it that made it do something like 10x faster, but that won't be enough for 3D.
**I keed, I keed, I love DF, it's great, but we have different priorities, so we can't steal Toady's UI, damnit.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Albert on August 01, 2013, 08:15:26 PM
So you don't know what or how, you don't seem optimistic anything is going to be made at all, and even if you do make "something" it will be terribly slow? Why didn't you say that on the Kickstarter? How do you justify taking money and promising features for which you yourself have no hope could be properly made?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 01, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
You misread my post, I was outlining what needs to be done, and the challenges that need to be overcome, but I'm confident we can do it, because we're made of AWESOME.

You seem to have glossed over [MAGIC PROGRAMMING STUFF], that's the important bit.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on August 02, 2013, 03:30:05 AM
If you actually do get the 20-75 times slower game to run with interactive Z levels tell us. I think that the entire forum would be happy to fall off buildings, even if it does take 3 minutes to fall 10 ft.

Also we could have alpha bug testing.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Pthalocy on August 02, 2013, 03:45:32 AM
Quote
The features we want are fairly straightforward and well-understood (other than the UI part, the hard part there is precisely in planning it), but will take a *huge* amount of detail and optimization work to implement.

I'd be more worried if the problems weren't also well-understood. That's good, because it just means effort needs applying to fix it, rather than running around trying to identify issues, which is a hell of a lot less fun than code-progress. X)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 02, 2013, 03:41:39 PM
If you actually do get the 20-75 times slower game to run with interactive Z levels tell us. I think that the entire forum would be happy to fall off buildings, even if it does take 3 minutes to fall 10 ft.

Also we could have alpha bug testing.

Very much so.  We mostly rely on the people who track experimental for feedback on new stuff, but we do need to post builds of really big features in progress for focused testing/feedback.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: SKiPPY on August 02, 2013, 05:57:11 PM
Hey, once again, congrats on the kickstarter!
I know you must be EXTREMELY BUSY with all of the programming you guys are doing with your new dev and everything, but I just wanted to ask what features that will come out first?

Please do not feel rushed; you guys have already done an amazing job updating and bringing new features to this game already. Besides, I'm already enjoying the game as it is.

Thanks
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on August 02, 2013, 07:41:32 PM
@SKiPPY: I am currently working on Tile Support, and making good progress on the framework. Currently getting a json format finalized so that you can easily add and remove tiles without it blowing up and needing a recompile after every new item addition. Right now it is taking in a png of some size, splitting it into tiles, and storing tile coordinates relative to an id number (0-the number of tiles in the atlas). Once all of the used IDs are loaded in it will then compress the atlas given into a smaller SDL_Surface that only contains the used tiles before unloading the original tile atlas from memory.

My order of work is probably going to come down to: Tiles > World Factory > Z-Levels > Starting Scenarios. In other wording: Shiny stuff > Not so shiny stuff > more shiny stuff > kinda shiny stuff :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Rivet on August 03, 2013, 07:15:10 PM
Tiles aren't going to become a requirement are they?

I love my roguelikes but I can't stand tile-based ones. Maybe I'm weird, but I just prefer the ASCII characters.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on August 03, 2013, 08:47:03 PM
@Rivet: No, tiles will not become a requirement. The option will just be made more readily available :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Rivet on August 04, 2013, 01:00:35 AM
That's great to hear!

Tiles are unnecessary and don't really add anything of real value to roguelikes. I'm always in favor of substance over style anyway.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Vronkio on August 04, 2013, 07:42:15 AM
You can have both.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: KA101 on August 04, 2013, 08:07:14 AM
If you need tiles, the game's programmed poorly.  Cata doesn't need them IMO because the major dangers (critters) are clearly keyed under the compass display.  Conversely, I usually can't make much sense out of a Nethack ASCII map.

Basically, I'd regard tiles as an accessibility mod, not as something that ought to be pt in for the sake of being purty.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on August 05, 2013, 03:47:43 AM
Why not add tiles and take away the code for ASCII. This will limit the size of the files (yay faster downloads).

But also make a jpg or png or insert_image_type_here filled with ASCII, like this this (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Anikki_square_20x20.png) except without all the fancy arrows and wall thingies.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: TheGrifter on August 05, 2013, 04:45:22 AM
What's the ETA on that update that was supposed to be in in a week, according to the "Kickstarter Funded" post?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on August 05, 2013, 06:52:55 AM
I'm writing it up now to be sent to GlyphGryph for proofreading and distribution. Most likely it will be put up in the morning or early afternoon since GlyphGryph is /probably/ already asleep for the night. I finished work for the week about an hour ago and have spent a good deal of the time since then going through my personal log and expanding on the points therein.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Deon on August 05, 2013, 10:05:00 AM
So guys, should we just wait for an appropriate letter to describe our 20$ and other donator's rewards (like characters and the like)?

I went for Explorer tier and now I don't know whether I should fill some form with info about my survivor, or should I just wait? :D

What's the ETA on that update that was supposed to be in in a week, according to the "Kickstarter Funded" post?
Yep, interested to see which new features are being worked on too, really excited :D.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on August 05, 2013, 10:19:43 AM
Sent the dev journal off to GlyphGryph a bit ago, shoulda updated my post hehe. Should be posted in the morning :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 05, 2013, 12:44:23 PM
So guys, should we just wait for an appropriate letter to describe our 20$ and other donator's rewards (like characters and the like)?

I went for Explorer tier and now I don't know whether I should fill some form with info about my survivor, or should I just wait? :D

What's the ETA on that update that was supposed to be in in a week, according to the "Kickstarter Funded" post?
Yep, interested to see which new features are being worked on too, really excited :D.

There will be a Kickstarter questionnaire going out soon.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 05, 2013, 05:05:58 PM
Why not add tiles and take away the code for ASCII. This will limit the size of the files (yay faster downloads).

But also make a jpg or png or insert_image_type_here filled with ASCII, like this this (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Anikki_square_20x20.png) except without all the fancy arrows and wall thingies.

If we just wanted the *look* of ASCII, that might be a viable alternative, but ASCII mode (which isn't actually ASCII anymore, but I digress) also allows remote terminal play, streaming with ttycast, renders faster than tiles, usually allows more tiles-per-screen, and has fewer build dependencies.  Also there's a HUGE variety of fonts available, if we had "ASCII tiles", we'd be stuck with just one or at most a handfull of ascii-tilesets.

Also, +ascii-tileset -ascii-code would be a net increase in download size, removing the text handling would have almost no impact on the executable size, and tilesets are pretty big.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: GalenEvil on August 05, 2013, 05:30:47 PM
Quote from: Kevin Granade
(...) would be a net increase in download size (...) and tilesets are pretty big.
Looking at the tileset image I'm using from utunnels' Tileset source distribution: as a .BMP the tileset is 1.5MB, as a .PNG it is still 165kB. The JSON file needed to parse the tileset into something usable is 41kB. The shift from BMP to PNG made a huge difference, but I agree with Kevin Granade that it would still be an overall larger downloadable
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: vultures on August 07, 2013, 03:03:04 AM
Also remember, having tile support, not tiles, is what matters - it tends to motivate people to create, upload their mods and download others. Oh, the good fortune. :-)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Deon on August 07, 2013, 07:28:04 AM
Can't wait for the tile support, my tileset is going to be one of the first :D.

Just to show how I am excited, I took a few moments to make some basic ground tiles.

(http://img.ie/u70jk.png)

Of course I will change a lot once I start actually working on that, but that's a start.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Otaku on August 07, 2013, 08:18:17 AM
Deon, wow. You do a lot of games right (if your the Deon I'm thinking about). DF, Elona, now this.

Still, good job. You should probably go look at the Lab section, that has a lot of threads about tiles.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Deon on August 07, 2013, 11:09:29 AM
I had a full tileset for Cataclysm back then, I know the Lab section and I am going to make a more detailed AND an ASCII-like tilesets from a scratch.

P.S. Bars and basketball courts/parks in Cataclysm were coded by me, so while I am a bad coder, I contributed a bit (there was a mod back then with churches), so you don't have to tell me about Lab section :D.

Quote
You do a lot of games
Yep, I do a lot of games :D. Sadly sometimes it stops me from doing my wife, but she got used to it ;).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Deon on August 07, 2013, 01:16:41 PM
I'm thinking of this style of houses:
(http://img.ie/9rvcz.png)

By the way, which materials are walls made of? Is it brick?

P.S. I may go with my old tileset style though, right now I just plan how to build shapes. Textures are many, I can use both vibrant cartoonish colors and more realistic ones.

(http://i.imgur.com/eEyoP.png)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Crazydrift on August 07, 2013, 05:13:54 PM
Well, Deon, nice work. Keep the look of your new textures.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Zireael on August 07, 2013, 05:37:51 PM
Well, Deon, nice work. Keep the look of your new textures.

I agree.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: SKiPPY on August 08, 2013, 06:10:29 PM
I'm thinking of this style of houses:
(http://img.ie/9rvcz.png)

By the way, which materials are walls made of? Is it brick?

P.S. I may go with my old tileset style though, right now I just plan how to build shapes. Textures are many, I can use both vibrant cartoonish colors and more realistic ones.

(http://i.imgur.com/eEyoP.png)

Deon, didn't you make a tileset for one of the earlier versions? Because if remember correctly, your tilesets are kick ass!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: youtoo on August 08, 2013, 08:43:09 PM
if whales original forum is still up, there should be a link to the old tileset on the mod forum. buried somewhere.

Skippy: Are you the fulltime kickstarter developer?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Deon on August 08, 2013, 10:34:04 PM
Yep, here it is:
http://whalesdev.com/forums/index.php?topic=1336.0
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: Ziusudra on August 08, 2013, 10:51:53 PM
Judging by what is left when I blow up the walls of the tutorial house I would say they are wood frame.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: SKiPPY on August 09, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
if whales original forum is still up, there should be a link to the old tileset on the mod forum. buried somewhere.

Skippy: Are you the fulltime kickstarter developer?
AHHAHAHAHAHAHA...no.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: JAYPCM on August 11, 2013, 03:02:33 PM
Long time player, first time poster. Was just wondering if there is a where we can get news on the kickstarted updates? It's been a couple weeks now and there is no news. I don't expect an update so soon, but news on whats being worked on right now would be nice.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 11, 2013, 04:37:46 PM
There was an update sent out about a week ago (and will be one approximately every week until I get the dev diary section of the website set up, where they will appear instead)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: youtoo on August 11, 2013, 06:27:18 PM
@skippy: uhh. whats so funny? community is really growing. its hard to keep track of who is doing what. there are so many contributors.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Albert on August 15, 2013, 03:18:37 PM
Where can we find last week Developer's Diary?

Where can we find tiles support build?

Where can we find the tileset?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: jcannon98188 on August 15, 2013, 06:18:41 PM
Where can we find last week Developer's Diary?

Where can we find tiles support build?

Where can we find the tileset?


I do not believe the tileset build is done yet, however the programmer said he was working on it yesterday. It should be today or tomorrow hopefully. As for tilesets, there are a few people working on getting the graphics ready to go. I believe you can find them in "The Lab" section of the forum
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on August 15, 2013, 07:39:25 PM
@skippy: uhh. whats so funny? community is really growing. its hard to keep track of who is doing what. there are so many contributors.
All of the higher level developers either will have 4 stars and be titled "Contributor" or have 5 golden stars next to their account
Here's the current list of developers:
Kevingranade
GlyphGryph - Forum/kickstarter admin
TheDarklingWolf - Currently can't spend large amounts of time here
GalenEvil - Kickstarter dev
i2amroy
OzoneH3

At the moment Kevingranade is the main merger for the project, I review/merge a smaller chunk of pull requests, GlyphGryph handles the forums, GalenEvil works on his kickstarter stuff, and OzoneH3 chips in occasionally with stuff.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 15, 2013, 09:00:08 PM
To be clear though, there is a large group of people making critical contributions to the code, that list in particular puts in a lot of time, but if they were the only contributors DDA wouldn't be half as awesome as it is.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 15, 2013, 09:45:58 PM
Is there somewhere we could find an "upcoming features" list? Not like, suggestions, but what you guys are actually working on?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 15, 2013, 10:14:33 PM
This is the stuff we hope to have for next version:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues?milestone=5&state=open

And here's the pull requests people have open, meaning they are waiting for it to be merged in or working on it and looking for feedback:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pulls

Open issues in the github is probably the best place to go. But even then... people tend to pop in and pop out pretty quickly to do lots of stuff all the time.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Zireael on August 16, 2013, 01:27:24 PM
Check out Deon and Samscale, if you want to know about tilesets.

GalenEvil has been on a short trip last week and wasn't able to code as fast as he'd hoped.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: jcannon98188 on August 16, 2013, 05:37:12 PM
This is the stuff we hope to have for next version:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues?milestone=5&state=open

And here's the pull requests people have open, meaning they are waiting for it to be merged in or working on it and looking for feedback:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pulls

Open issues in the github is probably the best place to go. But even then... people tend to pop in and pop out pretty quickly to do lots of stuff all the time.

That has nothing to do with the Kickstarter. Since this is Kickstarter thread it's natural to expect people here are interested in those features they pledged their  money for, features that are outlined in the contract you have with the Kickstarter developer. Like whether are sprites supposed to be animated, are wielded items and clothes supposed to be visible on the character sprite, and stuff like that.


Quote
For non-backers who haven't been getting regular updates - our programmer has begun work on getting tileset support working, and is making good progress. I expect it to be finished early next week, and several folks on the forum have tilesets ready to plug in and go.

You posted this on http://en.cataclysmdda.com/

It's the end of the week, where is it? Why do we have to keep asking instead of to be informed about the progress via Developer's Diary or otherwise? Speaking of which, where can we find last week Developer's Diary?

Who are these folks with tilesets ready to plug in and go, where can we find those tilesets?

Dude, calm your tits. Did you even back the kickstarter? The information he posted is a list of all planned features. That is what was requested. The updates are sent VIA EMAIL to BACKERS. There is no Dev Diary available to the public yet. Kickstarter Money was not used to promise any of things, or technically any features. It was to hire a programmer, which is has. Work is being done. If you look on the forum, like I told you too in my previous post, you would know to look in the "The Lab" section of the forum for the tileset progress. The programmer is working on implementing support. Again, calm your tits and stop trying to boss people around. Your tone is starting to get annoying.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 16, 2013, 05:46:17 PM
Kickstarter Money was not used to promise any of things, or technically any features. It was to hire a programmer, which is has. Work is being done. If you look on the forum, like I told you too in my previous post, you would know to look in the "The Lab" section of the forum for the tileset progress. The programmer is working on implementing support. Again, calm your tits and stop trying to boss people around. Your tone is starting to get annoying.

Minor correction, the KickStarter funds *are* for the KickStarter features and rewards.  Hiring GalenEvil is the *how* of getting the features done.

That doesn't change the fact that it's kind of pointless to bug us about KickStarter deliverables through non-KickStarter channels.  It's also kind of hinky to *demand* compliance with informal, best-effort estimates.  If you have issues with KS dileverables, bug us about it there, if you don't have any deliverables, what are you complaining about?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 17, 2013, 01:00:22 AM
I feel like tone is starting to devolve here. We don't want this to turn into another "Ship Sinking Simulator" situation. Anyone remember that? Wasn't pretty. Now, I agree that what's his face was beginning to get a bit accusatory, but I think the people watching this are starting to get a little antsy. Something to prove that the hookers and coke money has properly motivated the developers. Of course, that's a short term thing. It's been like a week. Or two. Can't press + without crashing. No real changes from un-kickstarter version. Same game, same people, only money has changed hands for... some... reason.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on August 17, 2013, 01:13:52 AM
No real changes from un-kickstarter version. Same game, same people, only money has changed hands for... some... reason.
The first goal of the kickstarter version was to create tile support. This isn't something that can be merged in in small pieces, nor is it a "quick and easy" thing to add. Thus there won't be any (visible) changes from the kickstarter until tiles are ready to be merged in; at which point there will be a big change. GalenEvil isn't currently working on "bug-fixing", he's working on implementing a very large but very desired feature.

Also, as noted by jcannon, only the kickstarter backers get GalenEvil's dev log.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: jcannon98188 on August 17, 2013, 02:29:04 AM
I feel like tone is starting to devolve here. We don't want this to turn into another "Ship Sinking Simulator" situation. Anyone remember that? Wasn't pretty. Now, I agree that what's his face was beginning to get a bit accusatory, but I think the people watching this are starting to get a little antsy. Something to prove that the hookers and coke money has properly motivated the developers. Of course, that's a short term thing. It's been like a week. Or two. Can't press + without crashing. No real changes from un-kickstarter version. Same game, same people, only money has changed hands for... some... reason.

The reason money chagned hands is one of them is doing this fulltime now. No kickstarter really fulfils anything within 2 weeks. Everyone is expecting change now now now. Even I am (I log onto this forum upwards of 30 times a day hoping for the update) but complaining and acting accusatory isn't helping anyone.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on August 17, 2013, 06:15:04 AM
I demand all my money back and then some in reparations for mental anguish caused by the cruel dev team.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: JackFlappigan on August 17, 2013, 07:11:10 AM
I am very excited for the next update, although I wish some people would lighten up on the dev team. Those guys have consistently put out monthly feature-rich updates for ages now, as if that doesn't give them some credit with you.

Really, be nicer. And have fun!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Zireael on August 17, 2013, 12:31:32 PM
In the Developer's Diary it was said all he need to do is test it and that it will be released on Wednesday last weak. So he failed to keep his word and went on a holiday, fine. But he returned on Tuesday and as of today still nothing, not even an explanation. If he worked for me he would be out of the job at this point. I just hope they haven't paid him anything yet.

The Wednesday thing was not a promise, it was just an expected ETA. You know how life can conspire to rob you of your time? That's what happened to Galen. He expected to finish the support by Wednesday, before the holiday, but he couldn't due to this thing that is called life, so he's back to working on it after said trip.
There have been explanations on IRC in the dev channel, btw.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Mr_Lolz on August 17, 2013, 12:42:35 PM
not sure why everyone is getting eggy.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 17, 2013, 01:06:37 PM
Okay, one important note:

Quote
Sean was hoping to have both tileset and the dev diary done before spending a week with his family, but ended up not being happy with his progress and deciding to do additional work while there. For those wondering, yes, he'll only be getting paid for time he actually works, so his family reunion doesn't mean we'll be getting any less developer time for the Kickstarter funds.

So yes, things have actually been completely delayed by a full week. Maybe that'll calm a few people?

That said, I think I'm speaking in the interest of most backers here, if I say that I wish GE would be active on IRC and github more. His github acitivity since the KS started has been literally zero, and given that he's supposed to be working "fulltime", I think some of that time could be spent on communicating with other devs, which would undoubtedly enable us to push out those KS features faster and more efficinetly. On that note, can we get a more accurate definition of fulltime? To me "fulltime" means 6-8 hours a day, 5 days a week. That's what I thought I was backing the project for.

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on August 17, 2013, 02:03:51 PM
I have the exact thoughts CIB. I am not getting paid but I want to develop a tileset, but without any new major breakthroughs which were promised it's a bit problematic.

I am okay with that, but fulltime development was a different thing in my head than what happens now :). Maybe he should have waited with kickstarter for a bit because he has family issues to sort first. Family and fulltime programming do not go along well.


P.S. Some feedback would be nice too. I've sent him a PM about tileset support a week ago, and still no answer.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on August 17, 2013, 02:06:45 PM
Check out Deon and Samscale, if you want to know about tilesets.

You mean this: (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/222/5/c/deer_1_by_samscale1-d6hh275.png) ?



I actually have three different sets of tiles ready to be plugged in and fleshed out, but I need to get a reply from GE first before I continue to work. Once we sort it out (I hope he replies soon) I will be able to make a tileset in no time.

I am not in a hurry here, I still have Pixel Pirates tileset to work on, but the sooner, the better.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 17, 2013, 03:40:44 PM
Quote from: IRC
<GlyphGryph> cib I got your message but it actually IS full time that seans working he just had one known event he had where he would be working
<GlyphGryph> from here on out it will be 4o hours a week

Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on August 17, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
I just want to give the grumblers a gentle reality smack - in capitalists society the first rule of business is "BUYER BEWARE." The burden of responsibility is on the one contributing the funds because it's their property they're putting into play. You do due diligence, risk assessment, contractual obligation to mitigate the chance of loss but ultimately it's your money and if it goes up in smoke it's on you.

Shadowrun Returns was a recent kickstarter that got 1.7 MILLION *projectile vomits* dollars to produce a remake of the outstanding Genesis/SNES title. I recently stole this game from a torrent and thought the devs, a professional team, did an outstanding job and have a lot of room for continued growth. Many of the donors, not a majority but a lot, were butthurt because their expectations were not met. I read through their expectations and what the devs promised and concluded the following 1. the donors had overly high expectations and 2. the devs were somewhat irresponsible in their goals. But only one party is at fault - the donors because  they acted in faith with real money and while that is morally admirable it is capitalistically terrible.

The Kickstarter for this excellent game is ultimately cobbling together beer/PS3 game money from a few hundred people to pay a freelance coder double minimum wage for a few months. To do what exactly? Completely remake a crazily complicated game THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE. DING DING DING. RISK ASSESSMENT ALARM! What leverage do you have to mitigate a loss? A contract? The only stipulation in this contract is that Galen, or someone to replace Galen, tries in good faith for a few months. I could have a contract to cure cancer, and strive mightily to do it, but duders that is not necessarily going to happen. Legal recourse? The consultation fees alone are far higher than the total invested. Hit his reputation? *Real* employers would give two %$#% about this, assuming you can even find an avenue to make a complaint.

What's my point? The Kickstarter goals are EXTREMELY AMBITIOUS. Even if Whales or even Toady were working on this I would still be worried about project completion. I would not be surprised if only one or two goals become successful after three months when the funds are exhausted. But since even the professional Shadowrun team, working with 1.7 million, can overstep themselves, this cannot be held against the devs. I'm not doing this to throw icewater on the party or rag on people, hell, for all I know Galen will blast the Kickstarter goals in one night of Adderol fueled delirium. But make no mistake, the main dev people can, right now, say #$#@ this @#!# and leave the project forever and that will be the end of Cdda. Galen will have to obligatorily make updates for a few months saying, "working hard, but it's not working out" and that will be it. The ONLY thing keeping this project going is the passion and good faith of the devs, who seem to be doing this as a labor of love. The money is essentially charity designed to bring in extra code power, it in no way guarantees anything.

Moral of the story I didn't donate :P
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 17, 2013, 05:03:19 PM
The Kickstarter for this excellent game is ultimately cobbling together beer/PS3 game money from a few hundred people to pay a freelance coder double minimum wage for a few months. To do what exactly? Completely remake a crazily complicated game THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE.

Are you talking about this kickstarter, because I can assure you that's not what this is about.

Quote
What's my point? The Kickstarter goals are EXTREMELY AMBITIOUS.

No, they're not. In fact, they're humble/realistic enough that there's a fair chance GE will be able to get more than just the KS goals done in that time(if he actually works on it fulltime).

Honestly, you don't seem to have the remotest idea of what is happening, so I suggest you just keep your mouth shut.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on August 17, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
Honestly, you don't seem to have the remotest idea of what is happening, so I suggest you just keep your mouth shut.

Wow, what a great tone to take with a project defender. I've been following this game longer than you have bucko. I can spin this the other way just as easily: 1. the Kickstarter IS behind schedule. 2. You've already had one dev BAIL 3. There is no inherent quality control to the Kickstarter other than "we promise" 4. It was a bad idea to go into the Kickstarter without Whales as the dedicated upgrader.

But like I said, I've got no skin in the game, so enjoy yourself.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: jcannon98188 on August 17, 2013, 06:30:03 PM
I hear people saying the kickstarter is behind schedule, but I don't remember seeing any hard dates listed on the kickstarter. Was this schedule released to backers?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 17, 2013, 07:02:31 PM
The KS will/would be behind schedule if we don't have tilesets after the first month(+1 week), but that's not actually the issue. The actual issue is, things not done in those 3 months won't be done at all, except by people sacrificing their free time(and trust me, kevingranade is doing a lot of that already). So right now my concern(and that of others I expect), is whether we will see the features promised(and more, because more can definitely be done in those 3 months) implemented by our hired hand, or whether we'll have to rely on effort from our voluntary devs(which would make the KS somewhat futile), which might take significantly longer and will indeed put the "schedule" behind a bit.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on August 17, 2013, 07:10:46 PM
My main issue is that we do not get any feedback from the developer which means we cannot help even if we want to sacrifice our time for free. Mind you, I have other stuff to do, so I don't complain :).

And I threw my 20$ at the game because I want a survivor customized after me and tileset support, as long as it's done in future I am fine with any realistic time schedule. That's not a lot we pay.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 17, 2013, 07:13:49 PM
My main issue is that we do not get any feedback from the developer which means we cannot help even if we want to sacrifice our time for free. Mind you, I have other stuff to do, so I don't complain :).

Yes, that's also a very good point. Though I guess the two of us might be an exception there, since we've both worked on cataclysm tileset support in the past(one way or the other). The point there being, there's people who have experience with this in the community, why not build on that experience? Oh well, hopefully we'll hear from galenevil soon.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on August 17, 2013, 09:43:08 PM
1. the Kickstarter IS behind schedule.
As CIB mentioned, we have 1 month + 1 week for the first dev goal (tiles) to be completed. Since it's only been three weeks we are still ahead of schedule.
Quote
2. You've already had one dev BAIL
Yeah, and from what we heard his family was unable to get in touch with him either, so there it's pretty likely that he managed to get hit by a bus or something similar. There isn't much you can do against the chance of a serious accident like that happening.
Quote
3. There is no inherent quality control to the Kickstarter other than "we promise"
Isn't that the way that Kickstarter works? Like you are giving money to someone under the assumption that they will take it and use it to produce what they said they would. That's why there are stories of people taking the kickstarter money and running away with it (though some of those end up with legal action later).
Quote
4. It was a bad idea to go into the Kickstarter without Whales as the dedicated upgrader.
WE ASKED WHALES. HE SAID NO. I don't know how many times we need to say this. We've contacted Whales before. He said he was done with the project.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 17, 2013, 10:26:56 PM
I love this game. I like the expansion. But raising money over something you didn't create is sort of extremely hinky.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: jcannon98188 on August 17, 2013, 10:34:13 PM
The money is to pay the developer to work on the game full time. It is not to earn money for all the devs or anything like that.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on August 17, 2013, 10:52:46 PM
These last two are complaints/thoughts that strike me as the sort that ought to have been occurring during one's decision to donate.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 18, 2013, 03:27:00 AM
I feel like Albert may have had some legitimate complaints. He seemed disgruntled, but he didn't exactly seem like whoever it is. There's this guy on the Reagan IMDB page. He calls everybody who disagrees with him by the name of this one particular guy who disagrees with him. We can't just have some witch hunt and have a petty Stalinist "You're a Trotskyist" type rhetoric.

Now, I could be wrong, but he just seems like someone impatient with the deadline. I'm a patient person, but others who are not so patient are wondering where the update promised a week after the kickstarter was funded is. It's been... three weeks.

Now, I know you folks have lives, but you could have put out a superficial update. Or you know, spent your points in character gen on computers, find some meth, and get the update done. Nine grand? Goddamn. That's a sizable inheritance. You could go to Vegas on that money.

I don't mean to sound ingrateful to the developers, but I feel there is an air of standoffishness.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 18, 2013, 04:20:08 AM
I understand the concerns and am working my way towards alleviating the majority of them tonight. There was an update put up in the KS updates section for my week #1 dev diary, and last week's wasn't posted due to a trip that prevented just about all work for that week and some of this one. GlyphGryph should have a spot for me to put dev diaries on this site soon, hopefully over the weekend or before the next weekend.
$9,000 was the total pledged, and ended up somewhere around 7-8k (I think) after all of the pledges came in and fees taken out.
I am working on fixing up my JSON file and a test tileset so I can play around more easily, but the functionality is there. I am a perfectionist and don't like putting unfinished things up onto GitHub when at all possible which is the reason why my activity has been nil since I started working on this. I am at an almost satisfactory position and will be putting it up in about 2 hours after I get something to eat and tinker more.

Sorry for seeming standoffish.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on August 18, 2013, 04:37:57 AM
Look I have no doubt that a year from now this game will be fracking Skynet. It's improving in leaps and bounds every day. The moral dilemma if you will is that the improvements seem to be irrespective of $9000 being deposited. The $9000 is instead given toward goals that one man would struggle with over a year, let alone three months. Implementing numerous Z-levels (I read somewhere 25???) rendered continuously and simultaneously in a way that doesn't blow up an average CPU or shatter the parameters of the current game is a ridiculously complex goal. What happens if you drive a car off a cliff? What happens if you snipe from different levels? What happens if you throw something? Will it fly parabolically? Implementing parabolic flight is alone probably a month long goal. You could probably just cancel every other goal and give a person the money to work on Z levels for three months and it would still be a tenuous situation.

Have you all considered just paying a person  the $9000 to merge code for a year? Code that organically arises in a stress free, fun manner from the community? That is far more reasonable, practical, achievable and I don't see anyone objecting to it since it is the most important and miserable task required for project advancement. And it's inherently transparent and progressive: people will tune in to Github every day and say "oh, look what my money helped integrate!" If you feel that's too much for one man you could split it amongst multiple mergers. Or pay by merge, $10 for every merge until the funds are exhausted. Anyway you want it. As for the original goals, they will be met inevitably, in good time, in a stress free and transparent manner that won't call anyone's morality or competence into question.

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 18, 2013, 05:18:37 AM
I feel like Albert may have had some legitimate complaints. He seemed disgruntled, but he didn't exactly seem like whoever it is. There's this guy on the Reagan IMDB page. He calls everybody who disagrees with him by the name of this one particular guy who disagrees with him. We can't just have some witch hunt and have a petty Stalinist "You're a Trotskyist" type rhetoric.
He was using a fake e-mail address and connecting through a proxy server, and his use patterns matched LazyCats completely. It wasn't hard to track it back and get a positive id. Considering upon being banned he immediately recreated a ban dodge account, revealed himself to be LazyCat and copy-pasted his posts (getting banned three times in the process), I'm 100% sure he's LazyCat. And bandodge accounts get re-banned, it's that simple. He may seem like he has legitimate concerns, but they aren't - from his own mouth, he just wants to see us fail so his own version will look better in comparison, and will do whatever he can to insure this happens. Arguably legitimate complaints is just his latest tactic.

Also, we didn't actually begin coding as soon as the Kickstarter ended - it takes up to two weeks for the money to come through, and I explicitly told Sean that we'd be waiting before he began - he spent time working on another contract and that went fine.

He then worked for one week until his family reunion (which he told me in advance he'd be attending), and now he's back to work.

I have put out updates saying all of this - the dev diary from the first week was released, and I put out an update explaining that he was taking a week off for the reunion and so the second dev diary would be pushed back a week. Since it's only been three weeks since we've started working, I think two updates is more than enough for most people, since there's a third one in the pipe that will be released on Monday.

I'm open to suggestions for improvement here, but I'm not exactly sure what the complaints are, exactly, other than that he should be even further ahead of schedule than he is.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 18, 2013, 05:29:39 AM
There's no moral dilemma, I have no idea how you're reading morality into this.  The goals are in general things that NO ONE WAS PLANNING ON WORKING ON.  *Maybe* some one would have worked on tile support, *maybe* someone would have worked on z-levels, you can second-guess all you want, but here's what happened, the core project developers got together and discussed whether a kickstarter was a feasable, a good idea, and how we could leverage some funds to push the project forward.  What we came up with was "pay a dev to work full-time on a list of features it would be difficult to impossible to complete".
You don't seem to appreciate the difference in productivity between a developer working on a project in their spare time and working on it as their job.  Working on a project in your spare time is HARD, I get home from work in the evening, and instead of relaxing and shutting my brain off, I put in several more hours of work on DDA that's generally more challenging than what I do at work, but here's the thing, for even that short amount of time, I'm not operating at 100%, because I've already put in 8 hours of coding, and DDA gets whatever is left over.  If I have a hard day at work, I might not be able to accomplish much at all because I'm too tired to focus properly.  Additionally, I can't work on a single problem for more than a few hours at a time, because I just don't have that much contiguous free time I can put into DDA, so my coding sessions are all broken up.  There are several features in the game that I coded in single long coding sessions, but I can't those very often because I rarely am well-rested enough and have enough time to do that kind of thing.  Pretty much all of the other devs are in a similar situation, where DDA gets what's left over after the rest of their life.
Being able to fully concentrate on the project makes a massive amount of difference.  You can make far more effective use of your time, because you don't have to keep switching between this project and work projects, and you can use your most productive hours of work time for the project instead of more likely spending them on your dayjob.  In "professional" games, there are usually only a handful of core coders, and they can be massively productive because that's all they do, they can absolutely move mountains.
The "difficult" scenarios you outline aren't actually that much of a problem, the real issues are infrastructure and performance, but I'm confident those will be tractable.  Not easy, but we can do it.
Paying for "bugfixing" or "merging" or "testing" might have been nice, but it literally wasn't an option, Kickstarter requires you to have deliverables, so we could have a kickstarter for features, but not something nebulous like "stability" or "project management".  Also paying for someone to do merging is problematic in general for the same reason, there's no simple way to judge progress, so you can't really say whether someone is doing their job.  It literally suffers from the "someone would have done it anyway" problem, because well I'm not getting paid, and I'm doing it :P  Finally there's a super-specific problem with paying someone to do merges, because it would pretty much have to be me, and I'm not in a position where I can quit my job and do DDA for three months like GalenEvil can.  You can''t just hire someone to do merges, because it requires deeper understanding of the project than anything else you can do.
If you really want to contribute money toward merging, my btc address is 1LFeCofMPEkbVkB4T61KwWbXYZfySZC4TG, you can flattr me at https://flattr.com/profile/kevingranade and I can give out paypal contact info on request.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 18, 2013, 06:50:58 AM
I don't know. I'm sorry if I was wrong and it was Lazycat. But I don't understand why you and KevinGranate, and the people who are the real people on this don't get the money? I mean, you work hard on this project.

Kevin, don't take this as an indictment on you, I think you do good. But it's just that we haven't seen much from this fancy new guy even though we're paying him.

I'm sorry, Glyph, if I gave ammo to a troll. But I feel like the populace is beginning to get a bit impatient, as of current.
It's just a bit of Project Zomboid syndrome, where the devs say the updates will happen sooner than they actually do. I know you'll put out the update, but it's really frustrating.

Could you please work on adapting addiction files to JSON?
I want to make custom addictions without editing CPP files.

Thanks for continuing the game, but please keep it going on time.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 18, 2013, 07:59:00 AM
Often update timelines come up as best case scenarios if they are given early. I had very much planned on having the tileset support finished at the original time, but that was ignoring the time I needed to prepare for my trip. On getting back I had to re-focus myself on the task at hand, and decided time would be best used to clean up code and make it less of a pain to read. Things got rather obfuscated and unwieldy quickly while I was pounding out code before the trip. I am working to add in a few remaining supports that take full advantage of the json format being used, and will be doing a bit of data entry to convert utunnels' JSON file to work cohesively with my own format. Visible progress is being made, and I feel confident in saying that the next Dev Journal will be an interesting one. Probably will be rather long as well. I hope that the coming days will put any restless minds at ease.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: sethaniel on August 18, 2013, 12:27:28 PM
The reason I finally decided to sign up in these forums is due to the lack of updates on the main page, and I echo the sentiment that this reflects badly on the entire premise.

Still, I've always appreciated Whales and the subsequent devs' desire to put in so much effort into a game that gives no profit to them whatsoever(save the Kickstarter funds, which are pitifully small for such an amazing project anyway). So I'm not going to sully these boards with dickish comments to the devs such as those found directly above this post. (EDIT: which has since been removed)

A word of advice for the devs though: it would probably be best to prioritize getting the dev diaries part of the website up-and-running, instead of leaving a lot of people(mostly the non-backers) in the dark. Some of the recent news posts in the main page were quite misleading, and being the self-entitled pricks that human beings are, you can expect many of us to be wailing about broken promises and shattered dreams, etc. More information and clarification would be nice. It's a bit odd to post "expect a more substantial update later this week" which was visible to everyone, then when the week came to pass without an update, only the backers were given an explanation as to why. No doubt the antsiness started from that point on.

Sometimes though, there's just no pleasing everyone. Personally, I have high hopes for the game. Good luck guys!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 18, 2013, 03:42:02 PM
GalenEvil actually uploaded part of his progress to his branch, whoo! https://github.com/GalenEvil/Cataclysm-DDA-1/compare/Tile_Support
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vcntmnd on August 18, 2013, 03:54:11 PM
I'm very excited Deons involved again, Hi Deon! I've used lots of your toys in various games over the years.

Tileset support is huge and I'm very excited to see it coming.

I realize nobody knows who I am, I hang out in forums like I hang out in public restrooms; which is to say - I don't. I've had a few contributions here over the years. For example the species based mutations system was my concept, completely fleshed out and coded by whales ofc.

Devs, you guys are doing fine, try not let the crazy forums get under your skin, forums are always crazy.

For Galen with much respect, I'm happy to have somebody committed to programming for this game, which I've always thought had amazing potential. Resist the pressure to cut short deadlines, give yourself all the time you could need and then beat it. These things are going to take as long as they take, and as long as you're working on it, you're keeping your end of the bargain in good faith. People are always going to complain, ignore it.

On the flip side of the coin, this is a community driven project, there are valuable people here, corresponding with other resources within the community is a good thing, we're all on the same team, let co-creators know where things are headed or if things aren't working.

A kickstarter is not a binding contract, as much as people want to use 10 dollars to badger a developer into burn out phase.

Enjoy tinkering with cata for pay, the more fun you have, the better product all of us are going to end up with.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Ratha on August 18, 2013, 07:05:06 PM
Yikes. After reading the last few days worth of posts i can positively say that there are a few folks here who could use a time out. Spewing all this venom surely isnt going to get anyone to move more quickly toward any goal. However it very well might serve as a turn off for the unpaid part time devs who have been holding this project together and making it leaps and bounds better both in terms of content as well as usability. We all want the same thing here.. lets try to be civil to each other with respect towards that end?

I think one of the main issues here is that there has been a failure in the communication lines. The infrequent updates to the main DDA page as well as the lack of public access to the paid developer's dev logs seem to be the culprit in generating much animosity. Personally, i would love to see atleast a paragraph post on the website every week just to give an update and summary of the progress DDA is making overall, as well as detailing the progress that GalenEvil is making. The kickstarter generated a lot of hype, and i suspect that folks just want to be kept in the loop a bit better.

While i realize that access to GalenEvil's devlogs was billed an exclusive and paid kickstarter reward, i think that the community as a whole might benefit from access to it. A few of the tileset developers seem to have expressed that they are at a standstill, needing feedback from GalenEvil about what features his tileset code will have before they can progress. I dont know how deeply tileset implementation was discussed with GalenEvil before he started coding, but if our tileset makers dont know what capabilities the system will have when its finished, then thats probably not ideal. Its possible that with slightly better communication, or access to those logs that those tileset makers could continue work on improvements and additions. Granted they -could- wait till its released but what if their input or feature requests cause the system to be built in a much more robust manner, he might not have to go back and rewrite bits of it if he considered some of those suggestions during its creation. (And maybe he already has?)

Anyway, what can be said for certain is that all the people who have been working on DDA this year have done an amazing job. A ton of really old annoyances have been (nearly) eliminated from the game. The UI has seen vast improvements in usability, the zombie AI has changed in ways that make the game much more interesting, there have been significant content contributions, a couple of core gameplay mechanics were updated or even added, and we even have a few really useful animations now. You guys are on track towards making Cataclysm really stand out in the roguelike community. Its already a one-of-a-kind game, but its not been until this year that its really started to get the kind of polish it deserves. Whales did an amazing job, and it was sad to see him have to leave the project, but the guys who have picked it up in his place have gone leaps and bounds above anything most of us could have hoped for when we began playing so long ago.

Let us all hope that these guys continue to find CDDA a labor of love, and try not to be too hard on em when they dont get things exactly right the first time around.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on August 18, 2013, 08:16:22 PM
. For example the species based mutations system was my concept, completely fleshed out and coded by whales ofc.

You're the reason I have tree antlers!!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 19, 2013, 03:19:54 AM
Cherry picking tiles from utunnels' tileset, and adding some programmer art of my own. Not everything is tiled up but here is progress as it stands, in a hopefully visually appealing manner! Sorry for not having more screen shots to show off, the tileset is rather bare bones still >.<
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108102506/DDA/Tiles_minor_additions.png)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: John Candlebury on August 19, 2013, 03:23:38 AM
Woohooo! Progress!!!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: jcannon98188 on August 19, 2013, 05:08:49 AM
:D

Looks sweet GalenEvil. Any updated ETA when it goes live?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 19, 2013, 05:54:20 AM
@jcannon98188: not really sure, depends on how long it takes to get through review :D CIB helped me earlier today to get it workable on Linux, so hopefully by next week. I have to update it all to the mainline as well and resolve any conflicts :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 19, 2013, 07:58:15 AM
Cherry picking tiles from utunnels' tileset, and adding some programmer art of my own. Not everything is tiled up but here is progress as it stands, in a hopefully visually appealing manner! Sorry for not having more screen shots to show off, the tileset is rather bare bones still >.<
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108102506/DDA/Tiles_minor_additions.png)

Yay smooth walls!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Zireael on August 19, 2013, 08:54:05 AM
Aye, these pics are very good news.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: xLemor on August 19, 2013, 10:26:33 PM
I think the problem with the whining on the forums is that people think that since GE is getting paid to dev full time on the game makes him the donor's bitch. They think they hold a whip and it makes him work faster like if they were his boss. Well it doesnt work like that, you cant yell at the dev team or crack a whip at them cause they did a kickstarter and you guys certainly have NO autorithy on GE or the rest of the team. GE will meet the deadlines and perharps earlier than due. He is working hard and fast on the tilesets for a few weeks now and from what talked about on irc back then he really got thru it fast and it only needed adjustements and reviewing the code.

Cheering and encouraging is a better motivation than pointing fingers at people and whining at them. You guys should reconize that cdda dev team is great and give us a lot with this game.  show them some love instead of bitching lol
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 19, 2013, 10:28:26 PM
Pertinent: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Rivet on August 20, 2013, 01:21:18 AM
I think the problem... <snip>

I agree one hundred percent.

If the people who are whining want to see things happen faster, then they should shut up and start contributing.

No amount of complaining or pointing fingers has ever accomplished anything productive.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Otaku on August 20, 2013, 07:29:51 AM
I think of organizing code as an investment. A little lost time now arranging it and making it neater will make additions and mods faster in the future. So there are no set deadlines.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: youtoo on August 20, 2013, 03:47:47 PM
I thinkI asked this before. if it was answered, I cant find it. what is the forum name to the fulltime developer? can you make a post with his name?
I have a suggestion that on the forums, that contributors get special tags in their name (can this forum support it?)

such as

'full time dev'
core developer (kevin granade would be one. )
website owner

makes it easier for the rest of us to spot you. also gives you a little plug for all the hard work you are doing.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kaet on August 20, 2013, 04:11:53 PM
i2amroy said a few pages back whos doing what
All of the higher level developers either will have 4 stars and be titled "Contributor" or have 5 golden stars next to their account
Here's the current list of developers:
Kevingranade
GlyphGryph - Forum/kickstarter admin
TheDarklingWolf - Currently can't spend large amounts of time here
GalenEvil - Kickstarter dev
i2amroy
OzoneH3

At the moment Kevingranade is the main merger for the project, I review/merge a smaller chunk of pull requests, GlyphGryph handles the forums, GalenEvil works on his kickstarter stuff, and OzoneH3 chips in occasionally with stuff.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 20, 2013, 05:01:08 PM
I thinkI asked this before. if it was answered, I cant find it. what is the forum name to the fulltime developer? can you make a post with his name?
Real name: Sean McLaughlin
Forum Name: GalenEvil

And yeah, as mentioned 4-star folk are core developers (although not all core developers are four-star folk, it's on request/nomination, and some of developers barely visit the forum and just don't care)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: youtoo on August 21, 2013, 09:11:44 PM
got it. Kevin is the resident build bitch.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 21, 2013, 09:27:38 PM
Actually I'm the merge bitch, narc's pet Jenkins instance is the build bitch :D
Although I do a lot of builds, holy crap do I do a lot of builds.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on August 22, 2013, 05:54:42 AM
Welp, I've finished and sent off a two-page comic to Granade and Glyph, so barring any terrible I overlooked, it's ready to get added to the other goodies making up the art tier reward. Hooray!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on August 22, 2013, 08:49:46 AM
If you are working on tiles, can you at least think about decoupling the graphic window from the rest of the text?

Being forced to use the same grid size for the graphic cells and for the text completely defies the point of tilesets. I know the old versions based on Whales Cataclysm could do this.

(http://loopingworld.com/misc/catat2.jpg)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 22, 2013, 09:22:30 AM
If you are working on tiles, can you at least think about decoupling the graphic window from the rest of the text?

Being forced to use the same grid size for the graphic cells and for the text completely defies the point of tilesets. I know the old versions based on Whales Cataclysm could do this.

(http://loopingworld.com/misc/catat2.jpg)

That post before you is troll. GalenEvil already did ensure to implement the feature you suggest. Look closely at:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108102506/DDA/Tiles_minor_additions.png)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on August 22, 2013, 12:00:03 PM
If it's already like that then good.

But what should I see there? It seems to me the fonts are exactly the same size of the tiles. If they are not, fine. It simply means I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 22, 2013, 12:36:39 PM
If you look closely, the tiles are square, but the font isn't(it's exactly 2x1 font per tile).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 22, 2013, 04:01:16 PM
Admittedly that doesn't mean it's decoupled - it could just mean that it's coupled but tiles are two spaces wide.

I do agree that a complete decoupled is probably the most desirable way to go, but it may not be the most time-efficient way to go. And there's the question about how much it adds.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 23, 2013, 01:51:26 PM
Tiles are decoupled mostly from font size. In the main game screen it shows as many tiles as possible that fit within the fontwidth * view width, fontheight * view height values. I am pretty sure that's the only part that explicitly is restricted by font size. Keeps the game in the same screenspace as curses versions while restricting the per-screen viewable area a bit.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 24, 2013, 04:42:45 AM
How's progress coming along on Scenarios? I know tilesets are the big thing, but I keep finding mission items like black boxes, and it makes me wonder how that's gonna work.

Of course, I can't figure out the quests that are already in the game, so go figure.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 24, 2013, 05:04:59 AM
Scenarios have gotten very little attention lately, I'll write up some notes Saturday and Sunday on scenarios in addition to the other KS goals. I am open to suggestions for what should be supported by it.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 27, 2013, 01:15:49 AM
Snow tiles (yes, I know my snow tiles look crappy but they look a little like snowflakes atleast :D)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on August 27, 2013, 02:04:13 AM
Now, are those snow-covered tiles, or (more likely) weather: snowfall?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 27, 2013, 02:07:17 AM
What're you guys gonna call the new version, .8?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on August 27, 2013, 02:10:44 AM
Now, are those snow-covered tiles, or (more likely) weather: snowfall?
Snowfall.

What're you guys gonna call the new version, .8?
We'll probably decide the night before we release it. :P
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: xLemor on August 27, 2013, 03:40:39 AM
Now, are those snow-covered tiles, or (more likely) weather: snowfall?
Snowfall.

What're you guys gonna call the new version, .8?
We'll probably decide the night before we release it. :P

Hoes and Hobos
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 28, 2013, 12:40:15 AM
What's the latest downloadable version? Experimental, even.

Meet us half way. I can wait, but others can't and people are getting restless.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 28, 2013, 12:52:29 AM
I remember the tileset Whale's version had... Why can't we just use that, and then use letters to represent the things we don't have icons for?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on August 28, 2013, 01:03:08 AM
I remember the tileset Whale's version had... Why can't we just use that, and then use letters to represent the things we don't have icons for?
Umm... Because the versions aren't even close to being compatible? There are over 1000 code commits between version .7.1 and the upcoming version .8 alone, each one of which has the potential to break things. Not to mention we've added in mac compatibility and SDL compatibility (both things which the tiles need to be compatible with).

Also note that until .8 is officially released the experimental will still be listed as .7.1, despite the fact that it will be something like 95% the same as version .8.

Also ignore DownUnder, it's just LazyCat again (and what he's saying isn't even true anymore).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 28, 2013, 01:18:12 AM
I feel like you have some legitimate complaints. I myself wonder why they cannot just ask Gremour for help.

Explain your side of the story, Lazy Cat. I want to hear how you and them got so... feuding against eachother. This kickstarter thing seems kind of weird, I'll admit, but I think it's for the better. I hope so, atleast. But throwing money at something doesn't necessarily make it better.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 28, 2013, 01:20:14 AM
Oh God... Now I see what you mean... Gremour's are so much.... for a lack of a better word, prettier.

Can't we use some of the kick starter money to hire Gremour?

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on August 28, 2013, 03:46:26 AM
I saw this screenshot (it will probably disappear in the next few hours), anyone knows how it can be achieved?

(http://images.4chan.org/vg/src/1377539793064.png)

The best thing for me would be having all text like that, and 9x9 ASCII for the graphic. If the two are truly decoupled and if that font already works, then I guess I could simply load the 9x9 ASCII as a bitmap.

Would that be possible?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 28, 2013, 04:09:28 AM
What do you mean how can it be achieved?  There's nothing unusual there except perhaps a nice font, which is supported, and basically arbitrary fonts and tiles will be interoperable.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on August 28, 2013, 04:23:27 AM
What do you mean how can it be achieved?  There's nothing unusual there except perhaps a nice font, which is supported, and basically arbitrary fonts and tiles will be interoperable.

Well, it's at least rather hard. I'd have to use ASCII as tiles, but then it means I really have to make a full tileset since the game won't change the colors of the ASCII font (I guess).

That image seems weird because it seems to have "bold" support. Which is a font thing, but not a tile thing. So is the new Cataclysm using something like TrueType for text, and fixed tiles for graphic? Could there be a way to load TrueType for text and the legacy ASCII .png like Dwarf Fortress for the graphic?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 28, 2013, 05:38:54 AM
Kev, I want you to get a part of this kickstarter. Are you?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on August 28, 2013, 10:19:39 AM
Kev, I want you to get a part of this kickstarter. Are you?
Kevin, GlyphGryph, me, and all of the other devs (excepting GalenEvil) are doing all of this on our own time, for no reimbursement. We get none of the kickstarter and we don't want any of it; the money was raised for the sole purpose of hiring GalenEvil and that's what it will be used for.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 28, 2013, 01:56:38 PM
I find that hinky. You guys have put so much work into this game, and Galen comes along.... What, is he gonna pull out his badge and show us he's a real Programmer?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 28, 2013, 02:37:11 PM
I find that hinky. You guys have put so much work into this game, and Galen comes along.... What, is he gonna pull out his badge and show us he's a real Programmer?

The idea is Galen will work fulltime(40 hours a week), something the rest of us can't afford to do without ruining our actual career. If those 40 hours a week don't happen, naturally that *would* seem a bit unfair, as there's enough of us who can and are putting in "part-time job" kind of effort into the game. But the idea of the kickstarter itself is sound.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 28, 2013, 02:52:28 PM
I just believe you guys should get a cut. Whales should DEFINITELY get a cut, and Darkling should get a cut too.

That's 8 grand, split however many ways, but a thousand or so is nothing to scoff at
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 28, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Except you can't run a kickstarter for that, and it would be immoral to do so. The money is to help future production and add things sooner, not to reward those who've already put in time or even those who continue to put in time.

We have a hundred contributors, and a great many of them have made invaluable inclusions to the project. This is the standard open source model for moving forward with paid development - everyone who was working on it before continues working on it, but the money is used to hire people to work on it more than would have been done otherwise.

The money is going towards accomplishing something new, a specific project (hiring a full time developer for 'x' amount of time), not rewarding people for what already exists - this is not a charity situation.

If we'd raised a WHOLE lot of money, such that we raked in filthy lucre and could easily meet the kickstarter goals and have stuff left over, then we could have considered distributing it to the other programmers (as long as we fulfilled our goal, the remaining cash is 'profit' and can morally be distributed how we wish).

We didn't raise anywhere near enough money for that to happen.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on August 28, 2013, 03:33:16 PM
I just believe you guys should get a cut.

You might think so, but the kickstarter was about certain features/promises. If you want your money to go directly to a certain dev, there are other mechanisms such as flattr or bitcoin(kevingranade in particular has both), but the kickstarter money is going to where it can make the promises be fulfilled. Had the kickstarter been significantly more successful, I'm sure there'd be considerations of getting kg on the team fulltime.

http://flattr.com/profile/kevingranade
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 28, 2013, 03:35:36 PM
And as he says, he is always happy to take your money!

As for the "look" of the tiles, keep in mind that GalenEvil is not making the tileset - he is programming in the support. The current tileset is a placeholder.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on August 28, 2013, 05:26:14 PM
Kev, I want you to get a part of this kickstarter. Are you?

Absolutely!  I'm getting tile support, a scenario manager, z-level support, and um... did stealth make it in? whatever, the kickstarter goals.  Also I'm getting my apartment put in the game (which I'll um... probably do myself).

Also I did two interviews, which was fun AND gets me professional exposure.

Disclosure regarding other renumerations: I've been given 0.5BTC and I think about 30 Euros personally.
If you want to contribute to that, feel free.  If you want to send me funds via paypal, contact me.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: jcannon98188 on August 29, 2013, 11:22:31 PM
Any update on tileset support? Last I heard it was due out last weekend (IIRC).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on August 30, 2013, 12:11:34 AM
Any update on tileset support? Last I heard it was due out last weekend (IIRC).
The review process started shortly before last weekend Thursday evening/Friday morning, but as is common with these things we managed to find a few bugs/problems on other systems/etc. that we deemed important enough to delay the merging.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 30, 2013, 04:48:23 AM
Tile Support has been landed to the main repo! WOO! ^_^ Experimental builds for it should show up in the next day or so when Jenkins is set up properly to handle the additional library and header file.
Now to begin serious work on the World Factory! I have it recognizing World folders so far, almost have it loading the savegames within it. Once I have it loading I'll work on getting it to save properly and basic world gen options will be put in. Won't be nearly as flashy as Tile support, nor as difficult to get working :P I expect a few "gotcha" bugs to crop up, but the work on this is pretty straightforward.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: John Candlebury on August 30, 2013, 04:51:21 AM
Great news Galen and thanks for your hard work!!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Inquisitor Dust on August 30, 2013, 04:54:50 AM
Is now the time to start worshiping GalenEvil?
Now is the time to start worshiping GalenEvil.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on August 30, 2013, 06:55:29 AM
NO: ONLY REASONABLE SOLUTION IS SHACKLE HIM TO CHAIR NEXT TO COMPUTER. WHEN GAME IS BETTER, OR HE DIE OF STARVATION, UNHOOK CHAIN.

I jest. But just barely...



Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Sheb on August 30, 2013, 09:41:24 AM
Dang, I understand you want to get those "easier" parts done first, but I really hoped you'd do the z-levels first. I cannot wait to kill zeds from the roof.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Austupaio on August 30, 2013, 01:30:06 PM
 Please let us know when tilesets hit the experimental!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 30, 2013, 01:36:30 PM
Well technically it already has, it's just that if you don't have your own dev tools you probably can't get it to work. I, however, clearly have no problem doing so. ;)

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: kenoxite on August 30, 2013, 03:25:34 PM
To be more precise, technically something related to that was implemented in the latest available nightly build, so go ahead if you don't mind not being able to actually play it or black screens arouse you for some reason (https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/2744). Or if you use Linux, I guess.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 31, 2013, 05:00:17 AM
Note: Please do not reply to spam in this thread. It will be deleted along with any spam present

@kenoxite: The issue there is that the gfx folder is not being added to the distributables. Should be fixed soon.

Progress! I have made some progress on the world factory. Currently it will load a save from a world folder. Working on getting characters to save back to the world they were loaded from. After that I will be making changes to allow for world generation, and starting new games within generated worlds.

For now, here is a picture of the main menu with a world and character selected :D

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108102506/DDA/WorldFactory/WF_LoadScreen.png)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Sheb on August 31, 2013, 10:39:03 AM
Any way to turn the tileset off? I didn't find that in the options.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: kenoxite on August 31, 2013, 12:05:23 PM
Any way to turn the tileset off? I didn't find that in the options.
That would be a particularly welcomed feature.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 31, 2013, 12:12:34 PM
It is not a current option, but since it has been brought to my attention I will be working on getting that added today.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Sheb on August 31, 2013, 01:18:46 PM
Great. I mean, even if the tileset was perfect, beautiful and complete, we still have our fair lot of ASCII-lover here?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Moon_Dew on August 31, 2013, 02:39:27 PM
It is not a current option, but since it has been brought to my attention I will be working on getting that added today.

Until then, how can we switch from the incomplete tileset to the original ASCII graphics, because the graphic tileset is currently rather ugly with all the missing tiles.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Austupaio on August 31, 2013, 02:48:08 PM
It is the experimental version. These sorts of issues are to be expected.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: John Candlebury on August 31, 2013, 02:56:37 PM
You can downlooad curses. Its got everything but the graphics
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kaet on August 31, 2013, 03:43:10 PM
Will this work with experimental builds?
I believe thats lazycat, a person who got his feelings hurt and decided to spend his time working against the project for some reason.
So pay no attention to him and I wouldn't trust that link he keeps putting up.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Sheb on August 31, 2013, 03:44:42 PM
That's LazyCat being a troll again.

GalenEvil's code is no worse than utunnel's (GalenEvil actually re-used large part of Utunnel's code and improved on it), but the problem is that it's not plugged into a proper tileset yet. Akak: the game recognize all the tiles it needs, but we still need to make those tiles, and present them in a format the game understand.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 01, 2013, 11:42:56 AM
Note: Seriously...Please do not reply to spam in this thread. It will be deleted along with any spam present
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on September 02, 2013, 12:17:22 AM
So, with all the crazy stuff flying through Github right now, will 0.8 get released before Dwarf Fortress's next big blast? It's coming out Mid-Novemberish. Maaaybeee.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on September 02, 2013, 04:53:36 AM
Tileset support is on?! I was in the countryside and missed when it happened, thank you so much guys and Galen :). I will get on with tileset making ASAP.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on September 02, 2013, 04:56:06 AM
Tileset support is on?! I was in the countryside and missed when it happened, thank you so much guys and Galen :). I will get on with tileset making ASAP.

Just in case you missed it: This (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=2093.255) seems to be the forum tileset-clearinghouse.  There's a wiki page too.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on September 02, 2013, 05:00:14 AM
Yep, I've noticed that thread, but I try to make the WHOLE tileset which may take a few days :).

By the way, I can't seem to find the graphical version myself, do I have to compile it?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 02, 2013, 05:17:58 AM
@Deon: If you download the experimental SDL build there will be an option in the Options>Interface menu for turning Tiles on and off. You'll need to restart the application for the change to take effect though.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on September 02, 2013, 07:31:45 AM
I'm getting 404 errors when I try to DL from this thread: http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=1770.0

Not sure why, can someone provide a different link please?

P.S. Figured it out, they renamed 0.6 to 0.7.1 and the link in the thread was not changed.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Austupaio on September 02, 2013, 07:32:56 AM
http://ci.narc.ro/job/Cataclysm-Win32-SDL/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/cataclysmdda-0.7.1.zip
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 02, 2013, 07:37:58 AM
Also, please disregard the fact it says 0.6-git at the top of the window >.> I flubbed something and it hasn't been changed back
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on September 02, 2013, 08:30:53 AM
So, is the current wall-connection style going to remain? Because it's okay for top-down walls, but it does not allow to use my isometric walls (you cannot specify which corner is which, and which side should the connection point to). I rather liked the old "overlap" mechanics for Gremour's tileset where you could just specify "east", "west", "nsw" etc directions for any tile.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 02, 2013, 08:46:21 AM
For the moment it's just top down only since everything rotates so much. I'll work on adding in support for naming all of the orientations individually so that isometric views become an option again.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on September 02, 2013, 09:53:35 AM
Posting to thank Galen and other folks for the hard work, I might not actually do anything on the project any more but it's still great to see it progressing so nicely.
Great jerb uvrybuddy.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: juliawang87 on September 02, 2013, 09:56:49 PM
I dunno if this is the right place to ask but coz there's talk about tilesets I wanted to ask:  will the tilesets be PNG files like in Dwarf Fortress where users can readily modify them?  I saw a screenshot and it looked very nice but the color of the floor was def something I would want to be able to change.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 02, 2013, 10:19:40 PM
Yes they're PNGs, should be very easy to tweak stuff like that.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on September 03, 2013, 05:04:35 AM
I cannot commit to creating a tileset, but it's an idea that I have tucked into the back of my head for future times. On occasion, I find myself in the frame of mind where I want to create something, but a full-fledged drawing is too big of a bite to chew. I am hoping such an instance of patience for many many tiles comes by. My money's on a major university project fueling procrastination.

Knowing the images will be png's makes this easier for me.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: xLemor on September 03, 2013, 10:11:00 AM
I cannot commit to creating a tileset, but it's an idea that I have tucked into the back of my head for future times. On occasion, I find myself in the frame of mind where I want to create something, but a full-fledged drawing is too big of a bite to chew. I am hoping such an instance of patience for many many tiles comes by. My money's on a major university project fueling procrastination.

Knowing the images will be png's makes this easier for me.

im sure a lot of people would love to play with a tileset that you drew
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Samscale1 on September 04, 2013, 06:31:48 AM
Just watched the video on the main site, Im a little confused about the new in game side features, they seemed more intuitive before. Also what does spawn scale factor do? Is static spawn still a thin, because if not that would suck. Static spawn was basically why I played cataclysm as much as I do.   
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on September 04, 2013, 06:47:09 AM
Increasing the spawn scaling factor actually only applies to static spawn. Basically it just increases the amount of static spawn for any given area by a set factor.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on September 10, 2013, 04:18:26 PM
so static zombies times five instead of static times 2 or 10? Cool.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on September 11, 2013, 09:47:58 AM
I'm working on a de-make of tiles. It seems working quite well:

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catanotiles.gif)

But why the current build only seems to use the handful of tiles in tinytile.png?

P.S.
The purpose of this is to have a square ASCII for the map, with size small enough to fit lots of space, while having a nice font instead for the UI.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: kenoxite on September 11, 2013, 09:55:05 AM
@HRose: that looks extremely spiffy
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Samscale1 on September 12, 2013, 06:17:41 PM
So does tiles automatically replace ascii? So is this the end of ascii tiles and stuff? I like ascii, will never exist or will there be a graphics or texture pack option like in minecraft in the options?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 12, 2013, 06:42:55 PM
We've said a million times, ASCII is not going away.
There will still be curses builds, which *can't* have tiles.
The SDL builds have an option to toggle back and forth between ASCII and tiles.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: StoneCacti on September 14, 2013, 05:06:59 AM
The kickstarter looks great man! As soon as i have a few bucks i'll contrib.

loved the intro video.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on September 14, 2013, 06:04:48 AM
The kickstarter looks great man! As soon as i have a few bucks i'll contrib.

loved the intro video.

It's over.  That's why GalenEvil's working.  All the rewards are set.  No buying in now.  Sorry.  :-(
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: StoneCacti on September 14, 2013, 07:06:16 AM
The kickstarter looks great man! As soon as i have a few bucks i'll contrib.

loved the intro video.

It's over.  That's why GalenEvil's working.  All the rewards are set.  No buying in now.  Sorry.  :-(

Damn.. Well it looks like the kickstart went well though.

I'll just look for other ways to contrib.

Badass game/community here.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: phaethon on September 17, 2013, 10:55:44 PM
I'm working on a de-make of tiles. It seems working quite well:

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catanotiles.gif)

But why the current build only seems to use the handful of tiles in tinytile.png?

P.S.
The purpose of this is to have a square ASCII for the map, with size small enough to fit lots of space, while having a nice font instead for the UI.

HRose, can you post this somewhere?

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 18, 2013, 12:42:56 AM
HRose: please do post that up, if you haven't already. That is quite the sexy tileset :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on September 22, 2013, 08:39:13 AM
Yeah but it was just a test, it misses basically everything.

I'll download the new version and see if it actually uses the full tile instead of a bunch of "?". Though it would be much simpler if there was somewhere a way to look up all the ASCII codes + colors used, or otherwise I wouldn't know how to replace a sprite with the correct ASCII symbol.

(and anyway, everyone could do it, you just need to open whatever tile you use, resize it to what would be 10x10, and then start copying over individual cells.)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on October 01, 2013, 08:01:30 AM
What can we expect to see in the next update? How is the JSONification process coming along? When will monsters be editable?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on October 01, 2013, 05:41:19 PM
What can we expect to see in the next update? How is the JSONification process coming along? When will monsters be editable?
With any luck the mod manager will be done at that point, which should make customization of the game much easier. Monster jsonification is part of said PR, so it will land at the exact same time as the mod manager. The other main goal is to hopefully have a better working NPC system by that point, along with the normal huge amount of improvements/fixes (which includes both a pretty much total rewrite of martial arts and some large rewrites in the infection/bite/recovery diseases along with bleeding, all four of which will be bodypart specific).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on October 01, 2013, 07:19:25 PM
Next update: tonight, monday was hectic and forgot to write it >.< Have other things I need to deal with before I can sit down and write the dev diary.
JSONification is complete AFAIK as of about 20 minutes ago. I accidentally broke the hell out of save compatabilities for a bit and had to hunt bugs, also random other bugs that I will share later :D It is not specifically part of the Mod Manager, but is necessary for the Mod Manager to be usable in any major capacity. Testing begins on JSONized inclusions today. Hopefully that will go well and I can get going on shuffling the UI about and getting it into a menu location.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: youtoo on October 02, 2013, 02:48:28 PM
@galenevil: i am very happy with the quality of work I got for my kickstarter payment. We all owe you a big thank you for taking this on. We should all be pleased with your productivity. Especially considering you are working for chicken scratch. I hope down the road you can use this to help market your contracting skills.

I have worked in IT for 14 years as a DBA. No application is perfect, but the way this  many part time enthusiasts work together is very impressive.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: gamut on October 13, 2013, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Kickstarter
The World Factory and Mod Manager - Right now, you do generate a single basic world depending on the mode you've chosen, and that world exists until you destroy it - but we can do a whole lot more than that. With this tool, you'll be able to manage multiple worlds at the same time, and when you generate a world you'll be able to tweak settings, pull in mods created by other players, and share your world with others in a conveniently packaged form. How cool is that, right? Think zombies are dumb? Replace them all with dinosaurs. It's that simple.

Is this already in? How can multiple worlds be managed?

Where from can we pull-in mods created by other players? How can mods be packaged and shared? Is this some kind of internet based service for hosting mods? Is it supposed to be accessible from game settings menu or separate application?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on October 13, 2013, 10:26:06 AM
Quote from: Kickstarter
The World Factory and Mod Manager - Right now, you do generate a single basic world depending on the mode you've chosen, and that world exists until you destroy it - but we can do a whole lot more than that. With this tool, you'll be able to manage multiple worlds at the same time, and when you generate a world you'll be able to tweak settings, pull in mods created by other players, and share your world with others in a conveniently packaged form. How cool is that, right? Think zombies are dumb? Replace them all with dinosaurs. It's that simple.

Is this already in? How can multiple worlds be managed?

Where from can we pull-in mods created by other players? How can mods be packaged and shared? Is this some kind of internet based service for hosting mods? Is it supposed to be accessible from game settings menu or separate application?


Not quite in yet. Will be getting that brought up to speed with the mainline (World Factory specifically, Mod Manager just needs finished and integration with WF) by midweek. Multiple worlds will be managed through a main menu option where you can Create, Delete, or Reset worlds as you desire. World creation at its core will be picking a name for it as well as some basic options. Once the Mod Manager is integrated you will also be able to choose mods for that world to use while playing. Deleting a world is rather straight forward, and will fully remove the world from your system. Resetting the world will delete any characters from the world as well as removing the map files from it so that it can be generated fresh from the parameters set during initial world generation. As far as I know we do not yet have a server to store mods for distribution. That is probably because the actual format for mods has not yet been finalized. I hope that we eventually get something like DFFD going as a point of access, but in the interim it will likely be personally hosted mod packages via dropbox, mediafire, or any of the other numerous file hosting sites.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: gamut on October 13, 2013, 11:17:15 AM
So we will be able to replace zombies with dinosaurs. Do you have more examples what else could it be useful for?

Beside monster type, will other or all monster properties be modifiable from that menu? Is it specific only to monster definitions or is it some kind of general JSON editor able to modify parameters in any other JSON as well?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on October 13, 2013, 11:57:40 AM
As far as CORE mods go, I think that once we kill the remaining hardcoded monster references in the code making them all into dinosaurs on a whim should be possible. For additional functionality it would partially take the burden off of the mainline as far as including modifications that are extraneous while still allowing easy additions and modifications of included JSON compatible definitions (anything that is already included in the data/json directory). What I'd like to be able to do since we make use of a flags system is to have specific available flags able to be toggled during world generation to influence the final loaded data, as well as use the monster categories to generate functionality similar to the Classic Zombie Mode that we already have available. JSON editing will still need to be done in an outside text editor, or through CataModder once it is able to generate acceptable entries for everything. The primary purpose of this is to act in a similar manner to other games' mod selection systems while allowing additional customization parameters during World Gen. I'd like to include specific building and map extra weightings but that may need to be added at a later date since the current framework makes doing so difficult and we are already in a sort of time crunch. That may become available during the reworks necessary to get Z-Levels working to their fullest potentials, but it is not a definite outcome.

At the current state, if one were to edit the monster json descriptions and some underlying parameters without changing the actual monster IDs for zombie-entities they could indeed become Dinosaurs very easily. There are just a lot of monitem definitions, as well as other hardcoded references to "mon_whatever" that are present throughout the codebase not dealt with during the initial move from fully hardcoded to JSON defined monsters.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: gamut on October 13, 2013, 01:15:33 PM
So to replace zombies with dinosaurs will not be possible with either World Factory or Mod Manager, it would require JSON files to be edited manually. But the Kickstarter says that's exactly what we will be able to do, in fact it's the only example why would anyone want to use it. How come it was decided to throw out that functionality? What else then are those features useful for?

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 13, 2013, 02:43:26 PM
No, what was described in the Kickstarter was being able to make the mods (by editing the jsons, which doesn't involve touching any code, just telling the game what you want) and being able to download mods, and then being able to choose which of those preset mods you want to play with for a given world.

Why would you want to go through all the work of making all those dinosaurs when someone else has done it for you? And if you are willing to go through all the work, there's not really a way to shortcut that other than "going through all the work". There was no editor described here (and we're lucky to have an editor in development for those who want it, but it's a convenience rather than any actual added functionality).

I will be hoping to get up a web-based mod archive (with ratings and rankings and categories and stuff) soon, and that people will come up with plenty of fun modifications for the game.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: gamut on October 13, 2013, 04:28:43 PM
It can not make mods, you need to manually edit JSON files just as before. Correct?

It can not "pull-in" mods, you need to manually download just as before. Correct?

It can not package or share mods, you need to do it manually just as before. Correct?

It can only select mods you have already downloaded or edited manually. Correct?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on October 13, 2013, 07:11:28 PM
So to replace zombies with dinosaurs will not be possible with either World Factory or Mod Manager, it would require JSON files to be edited manually. But the Kickstarter says that's exactly what we will be able to do, in fact it's the only example why would anyone want to use it. How come it was decided to throw out that functionality? What else then are those features useful for?
Replacing zombies with dinosaurs in a single click is only impossible for the mod's creator. Once the mod is created anyone who downloads it and drops it into the folder will be able to toggle it on/off at will. Here's the total process for creating/using a mod:

1) The mod creator edits the json or other files.
2) The mod creator "packages" those files as a mod through the manager and uploads them somewhere for download (this will eventually be a linked site managed by us)
3) Other players (that's you!) download those mod folders and drop them in a specified area.
4) Those players are then able to toggle on/off mods with a single switch in the mod manager menu.

The only person who actually has to do any sort of editing is the mod's creator, which makes sense; somebody has to create the mods after all, you can't just expect them to materialize from nowhere.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on October 14, 2013, 07:30:29 AM
We have been having a persistent troll problem in this thread - if you have been directed to this post, it is probably because he is posting, probably about Metal Gear Solid mod. DO NOT RESPOND, it is a trap. Instead, read the following to understand the situation.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on October 14, 2013, 05:15:56 PM
Haha, wow, it's like the John Galt of trolling. Or Nietzche's Ubermensch (Ubertroll?).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Rivet on October 14, 2013, 08:51:28 PM
The word you're looking for is definitely untermensch.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on October 14, 2013, 11:11:20 PM
The word you're looking for is definitely untermensch.

I was about to correct you, but then I thought, wait, what if I see what he did there, so I googled untermensch and SURE ENOUGH I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE +1
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Shadowdarke on October 17, 2013, 11:26:30 PM
Quote
"If we go with 1 z-level is equivalent to 2 meters in height, and we say gravity is set to Earth gravity of ~9.8 meters per second per second, the per tick acceleration would be somewhere close to 75-100 z-levels per tick per tick.

How long is a tick? To get those figures, there would have to be 3.9 to 4.5 seconds per tick.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on October 17, 2013, 11:39:31 PM
Yeah, I flubbed the end result a little since I didn't have it in front of me. 1 tick is 6 seconds.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: i2amroy on October 18, 2013, 03:00:21 AM
Personally I tend to figure about 2.5 - 3 meters for z-level height, since that is the approximate height of 1 story in the real world (10 ft - ~2 feet of ceiling/floor).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 18, 2013, 06:13:31 AM
Remember, though - if it's better for gameplay we should do that no matter how unrealistic it is (for example, to give them the opportunity to do things like fire as they fall and grab onto nearby ledges as they fly past, the fastest they could fall is 1 z-level per turn. And I'm okay with that.)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Leper on October 18, 2013, 08:30:18 AM
Perhaps if a compromise needs to be reached it could be along the lines of the parkour trait letting you grab onto things as you go past a lot easier, etc.
Mutations, CBMs, traits, stats, and skills could all influence these things.

There might not be any need for a compromise though, and if that's the case just ignore this post.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Binky on October 18, 2013, 11:03:35 AM
As much as I think 'realism' in cataclysm is important to make it a true survival game, I definitely feel it should be one 1 level per turn. However, you could perhaps randomly 'skip' a z-level or two on your way down to give a better sense of actually falling (this would also help with tall buildings)? This could be done with a message signal, or could just be a sort of 'given' I suppose.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on October 19, 2013, 07:18:21 AM
I wouldn't want skipping to be a random thing... I'd rather just 'reach terminal velocity' after a few floors of falling. Which I'd simplify horribly to 'fall 1 z level per tick', and after like three or four floors past, start falling 2 per tick. Take more damage if you hit the ground when falling by 2's. Really basic, but consistent.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on October 20, 2013, 01:13:42 AM
When can we expect .9? And what's it gonna be called?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on October 20, 2013, 03:14:27 AM
Halloween, and no idea :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: timtek on October 20, 2013, 06:41:16 AM
I think it should be called army of darkness, or aod
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ArgusTheCat on October 20, 2013, 04:43:41 PM
I think it should be called army of darkness, or aod

Why not just call it "Ashley"?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on October 20, 2013, 08:33:13 PM
Seconding the Ashley name haha. Groovy.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: timtek on October 21, 2013, 04:51:53 AM
I like Ashley. I third it.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Binky on October 21, 2013, 05:59:54 PM
Come on guys, it's really got to be called 'Boomstick'.

As far as falling, random seems rubbish on further reflection, but I can't think of another way to instil the 'panic' of falling. Possibly 2 z-levels a tick would be best all round though
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: shavedllama on October 21, 2013, 07:42:27 PM
Why not Candy? It functions as a girl's name and references Halloween. If not, then I second Boomstick.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on October 21, 2013, 09:53:38 PM
How about Lovecraft?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: FunsizeNinja123 on October 22, 2013, 02:30:44 PM
ASHLLYYYY
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ActuallyLazyCat on October 22, 2013, 06:23:30 PM
I can't wait for halloween! Candy is delicious. So sweet and good, just like this game. Maybe I'll wear a Cataclysm costume for halloween this year!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ActuallyLazyCat on October 23, 2013, 12:59:49 AM
Halloween, and no idea :D

You know guys, I think there aren't enough kitten costumes at Halloween.  I, for one, will be doing my part to make this the most kittentastic Halloween ever!

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is live!
Post by: ActuallyLazyCat on October 23, 2013, 01:02:27 AM
You misread my post, I was outlining what needs to be done, and the challenges that need to be overcome, but I'm confident we can do it, because we're made of AWESOME.

That's awesome!  Don't let the haters get you down!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Rivet on October 23, 2013, 01:20:55 AM
Halloween, and no idea :D

You know guys, I think there aren't enough kitten costumes at Halloween.  I, for one, will be doing my part to make this the most kittentastic Halloween ever!

You misread my post, I was outlining what needs to be done, and the challenges that need to be overcome, but I'm confident we can do it, because we're made of AWESOME.

That's awesome!  Don't let the haters get you down!

He's so much nicer now that he's been fixed.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Mr_Lolz on October 23, 2013, 08:29:37 AM
he who controls the future, controls the past..
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ActuallyLazyCat on October 24, 2013, 12:29:55 AM
So cute. So cuddly. Ducklings may be adorable, but nothing is adorable as kittens.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Leper on October 24, 2013, 03:11:56 AM
So cute. So cuddly. Ducklings may be adorable, but nothing is adorable as kittens.
Nawww, I just want to squeeze you like the widdle adorable kitty you are.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ActuallyLazyCat on October 24, 2013, 05:54:43 PM
So, how come no one is talking about the Kickstarter no more? Are you zombies aware the time is up? Only two weeks left, but they stopped releasing developer diaries three weeks ago. They gave up even trying and making excuses, so now you are left with incomplete tiles support, no any mod manager, and not even 'z' of z-levels support. They made fools of themselves and sheep out of you, everyone got what they deserve. Told ya!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Master Darius on October 24, 2013, 11:23:38 PM
I love kittens
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on October 25, 2013, 12:30:17 AM
This is the part where I wonder if people aren't getting the Ashley  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Williams)reference. Doesn't haaaave to be a girl's name. B)

Bonus: Boomstick comes included!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on October 25, 2013, 12:59:31 AM
I was thinking RE4.  <shrug>
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 25, 2013, 03:18:43 PM
Here's how the names happen:
I scan through the (100, 300, 500, 700, 1,000, 2,000 0_0) commit messages since the last release, summarizing them for the changelog.
With my brain crammed full of the zeitgeist for the current release, I come up with a apocalyptic horror author that seems to my work-addled brain to best represent what has changed since the last release.
It won't be Ashley.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 04:55:25 PM
Note that it does not have to necessarily be an author, though there is a definite weighted bias in favour of them.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on October 25, 2013, 05:31:29 PM
With my brain crammed full of the zeitgeist for the current release, I come up with a apocalyptic horror author that seems to my work-addled brain to best represent what has changed since the last release.
It won't be Ashley.

Matheson?

I suggest because all the 0.8 changes have been to the mechanics of the game, the scientific and functional aspects if you will, but ultimately the character is still very much alone and adrift. No shitty NPC's don't count :P

Also I expect a Ellison by version 1.2. One of the lab's finales, or a mine shaft finale, could be activating a "droning computer"

>_>
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 25, 2013, 09:44:34 PM
I've decided to name my RPG "The Z Chromosome" but only found a movie in making under a similar name. ChromosomeZ is a great name for a beta, perhaps.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on October 26, 2013, 08:49:24 AM
Vehicles fixed and overlay support for multiple objects seem working in tile mode. I guess the only major thing left is support for the (V)iew menu that right now isn't working.

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catatilelast2.gif)

By the way, does anyone know the name of the font being used here? I just can't seem to figure out.

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/font.png)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: infectedmochi on October 26, 2013, 09:05:04 AM
Looks like this font below, maybe they are the same?
(http://betatype.com/cms/system/files/ubuntu_title.png)

I believe this is Cataclysm running on Ubuntu or a similar distribution.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on October 26, 2013, 09:33:14 AM
Just an experiment, but isn't it nice? ;)

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catatile8b.gif)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: infectedmochi on October 26, 2013, 09:38:34 AM
I like the looks, has and old-school vibe to it.. well for me all ASCII rogue-like games has an old-school vibe but this, especially the zombie sprite remind me of some games in '90.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GalenEvil on October 26, 2013, 10:05:03 AM
I like it, looks a little like art that uses stippling :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: CIB on October 26, 2013, 03:41:52 PM
Just an experiment, but isn't it nice? ;)

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catatile8b.gif)

Dear god, more of this please!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Zireael on October 26, 2013, 05:21:00 PM
I love the pic, and I'm sorry but I can't help with the font.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 26, 2013, 10:53:04 PM
Why's it an experiment? Can't you just load a small square font into those tiles?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Miloch on October 26, 2013, 11:46:49 PM
I love it!  Give it to me! :)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 27, 2013, 09:19:38 AM
The Gods of Nethack, Angband, Crawl and Moria demand sacrifice! Give us the precious!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on October 27, 2013, 09:58:13 AM
It took a while but I found the original thread where I took that tileset from:
http://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=13&topicid=97045&showallposts=1&utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer7229f&utm_medium=twitter

If you scroll down there's a bigger tileset.

The problem is that it's really too tiny to be readable since it's 8x8. It could be easily made into 16x16, but then it becomes rather big if you don't have a big display.

I thought that maybe with a little work I could use some of the background tiles like roads, ground and grass and port them into my ASCII tile, but these are mostly done with single pixels while ASCII relies all on double pixel to make everything easy to see.

Or maybe I could make a compromise and go 9x9, so something between 8x8 and 10x10 (the ASCII I'm using).

How do you guys like this?

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catatiny16.gif)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 27, 2013, 10:16:51 AM
Wait, wait... if I was to, for example, rip the character set (http://i42.tinypic.com/k2y54h.png) and create a real font with some font editor so the ASCII codes refer to the individual tiles, could this be the means to give the Curses build an even more authentic look?
I mean the guy practically offered this for the taking, didn't he (Trihook)?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on October 27, 2013, 10:47:42 AM
Wait, wait... if I was to, for example, rip the character set (http://i42.tinypic.com/k2y54h.png) and create a real font with some font editor so the ASCII codes refer to the individual tiles, could this be the means to give the Curses build an even more authentic look?
I mean the guy practically offered this for the taking, didn't he (Trihook)?

You can't do it in ASCII since ASCII reuses the same character on different things swapping colors. Nor you can do this actually because text will disappear and you would see tiles instead of letters.

What I did was simply pasting those sprites on the cataclysm tileset.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 27, 2013, 11:21:03 AM
Exactly my point. You only need those bitmaps in the original tileset re-traced with Simple Vectors, and made for Windows, too (TTF).
I mean, you want purple houses and yellow roads, right?
It's only that - if you use the default font with the UI, you can pick a different one (of your choosing) for the game screen, is this the case?
Or there can be another issue, telling the game that the symbol has changed for monsters & terrain...
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on October 27, 2013, 11:42:04 AM
So, I like this compromise well enough. This is my 10x10 work in progress with an handful of those sprite tiles that I tweaked a bit:

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catatile10.gif)

It seems a nice compromise between readability and pretty.

Current work in progress:

http://www.cesspit.net/misc/10x10.zip
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 27, 2013, 11:54:14 AM
I mean, it's clear that the guy picked up a heap of 1-bit images so they better serve a purpose in the future. A good thing it survived the whole 8-bit->16bit->32bit image/OS transition in its base form. He only added to it, but I'm sure gonna make a fiendish font out of it... starting now.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on October 27, 2013, 02:32:47 PM
It's only that - if you use the default font with the UI, you can pick a different one (of your choosing) for the game screen, is this the case?

Nope, you can only load one font. I've asked to be able to load two, but it would still be only ASCII. In any case if you want sprites it's always easier and faster to use the tile mode.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Mrn on October 27, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
I guess the only major thing left is support for the (V)iew menu that right now isn't working.

I've posted a dirty "solution" to that problem here (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=3254.msg50402#msg50402), but the patch no longer applies, and it's wrong way of doing it anyway. I've been poking around the code and found a solution that seems "more right" (http://pastebin.com/ZNh1xj7S).

Why it doesn't work now? The current version uses only map::drawsq to draw the line. It works in curses version, but tiles version needs additional call to cata_tiles::init_draw_line.

My solution: use higher level, render agnostic game::draw_line (but the other kind than in my previous solution).

You'll notice I've also removed the "if u_see" line from game::draw_line. Rationale behind it is that this function is not called draw_line_if_u_see_the_end_point; it should be more generic in the first place, which allows it's use in other places, like drawing a trail line. I've also added "if u_see" to ranged.cpp to preserve the original behaviour. It has the added advantage of saving a function call to game::draw_line if we can't see the target. You'll see that I've also removed "if u_see" from cata_tiles::draw_line, since this is redundant IMO. It can be more streamlined, of course, but I intentionally tried to minimize the amount of information in the diff, to make the idea more clear. Again, I've checked the curses and SDL both with and without tiles and it works in every case. Apply the patch and enjoy :)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: HRose on October 27, 2013, 04:48:04 PM
Post a patch on github? I'm not a programmer (beside working on my own roguelike, but I'm just a noob), so I wasn't even able to compile successfully Cataclysm. I can't test stuff until it is committed on github and compiled on the experimental builds.

Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Mrn on October 27, 2013, 05:18:22 PM
Unfortunately, that requires having an account on GitHub and I was hoping to avoid that. But I'll look into that. It does seem to be more appropriate medium for posting patches.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 27, 2013, 07:43:56 PM
The whole idea behind the retro look is to propose it's all done 'old-skool' and only beautify it here and there. The .png on those C=64 forums does the exact thing, it's the manner that's funky; you would need a new tileset file for every color the game could use. In fact, I've only seen tilesets with transparent background layers so you can merge a symbol that represents a tile onto a "floor" square. I guess it worked well with multicolored tiles (4-bit) so it stick'd for the time being.
The problem that passes along with introducing a new font into the game is however slightly different - you can have green benches in parks and brown ones in shelters all getting along, but you can't seem to have one symbol on top of another unless it's some sort of an outline (item stacks). And then you get to the real issue - tileset pieces are bitmaps and font glyphs aren't; they're vectors. There can be a way around it, however, where the bitmaps can be traced and kept original - a thing that I would do. Another thing to consider whilst creating bitmap-fonts is the 255 character limit; here we have four or five times that at least. I've looked into the .ttf space so the problem could be solved - you can have neat vector glyphs for letters and common keyboard symbols, and vector-traced square-looking glyphs for main screen graphics, as far as you call for the corresponding #. But (there's always a but) - it can be even more silky and smooth - retracing the shapes so they look similar to Webdings font in Windows. And, to be sure, I've never seen a single roguelike make use of such a resource so there can't be one already, the font author would have to start from scratch (vectors can be a handful, believe me).
I only want to hear from the dev crew on this - if the original project makes use of the glyphs 1-255, could you be able to implement something more sophisticated, like an _advanced option to look for the right glyphs within the 256-65k range and draw them on screen? If I made such a font and made a HTML guide for you to use, so to easily find the right symbol to draw when doing it. could you be able to add the variables to the code?
I know it's not as easy as it may look, but we can pull it off if you wanted it to.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Rivet on October 28, 2013, 10:11:33 PM
Wow!

Normally I don't do tilesets, but I actually find myself liking yours.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on October 29, 2013, 03:44:06 AM
'twas my bad suggesting the limit for the .fon type. ANSI or Win for that matter provide a better stretch, for bitmap-wide fonts.
Anyway, I'm storing bitmaps for the font, using the Terminus preset. Once there's a significant portion done, I'll pin it to some filehost along with a HTML fontmap. Since there are mere six to eight hundred entries with the 8x8 formatting, I feel that creating groups and having some sort of apparent documentation is due, eventually. It will make the font usage a helluva lot easier.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

A brief request, though - if someone knows of a font creation/editing tool that's free and supports all the stamps for major formats, let me know. I'm using FontForge and feeling a bit bad about it.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vultures on November 01, 2013, 03:53:31 AM
(http://cdn.imghack.se/medium/fd60275387ebcb3338f56db25b7e6287.png) (http://www.imghack.se/128742)

It's just a snippet from earlier (yesterday afternoon) to show some of the glyphs from the EightBitUS font that should pop up in the near future. There are endless tiles to be font-packed (6666 tiles in the original .png) and I hope to finish it as soon as possible, as FF is paste-unfriendly, crops finished glyphs and otherwise makes my life miserable. :-)
You can see some of the 'symbols' designed for CataDDA on my behalf, tuned for the rest of the modern roguelikes of the present/future. Expect a couple more, add suggestions if you wish anytime now and look forward for the WikiCommons upload, cause it is what this is aimed for.
...only hope that the two extended-latin ranges will suffice, I'm not omitting anything from the original tileset.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Mattamue on November 05, 2013, 03:18:17 AM
It took a while but I found the original thread where I took that tileset from:
http://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=13&topicid=97045&showallposts=1&utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer7229f&utm_medium=twitter

If you scroll down there's a bigger tileset.

The problem is that it's really too tiny to be readable since it's 8x8. It could be easily made into 16x16, but then it becomes rather big if you don't have a big display.

I thought that maybe with a little work I could use some of the background tiles like roads, ground and grass and port them into my ASCII tile, but these are mostly done with single pixels while ASCII relies all on double pixel to make everything easy to see.

Or maybe I could make a compromise and go 9x9, so something between 8x8 and 10x10 (the ASCII I'm using).

How do you guys like this?

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catatiny16.gif)

All kinds of yes
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: StillLazyCat on November 08, 2013, 12:04:12 AM
Seriously guys. Fucking kittens. So fucking rad.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: StillLazyCat on November 08, 2013, 12:20:22 AM
!!!!!!! KITTENS !!!!!!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Zaweri Runewright on November 08, 2013, 08:58:20 AM
Nice job, Kevin and Kevin! :D ^5
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: noego on November 09, 2013, 12:45:22 AM
Vehicles fixed and overlay support for multiple objects seem working in tile mode. I guess the only major thing left is support for the (V)iew menu that right now isn't working.

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catatilelast2.gif)

By the way, does anyone know the name of the font being used here? I just can't seem to figure out.

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/font.png)

Dear god. This is beautiful. It brings me back to Ultima IV and V. A genuine nostalgia tear just rolled down my left cheek.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 14, 2013, 01:21:16 AM
Ekarus do not engage :(

I don't normally care for tilesets, not for games where most of the description is up to the reader/viewer - this however, is ....still hugely symbol based in appearance, and I find myself liking it!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Klomvp on November 14, 2013, 03:01:49 AM
For the record, even without the exiled nutjob guy butt-hurting all over the kickstarter, I totally called it that they wouldn't be getting all the features done in the promised time. It was a lot of stuff promised in the kickstarter, and all the mass of volunteers was outputting almost on par with a fulltime dev as it was. But big re-writes got done faster with the fulltime dev than the splintered volunteer devs, and that's more or less what I chipped in for.

Anyway, I'm taking a break from this until we have the Z-level re-write usable and have a mass of content for the mod manager. Set my alarm for... Christmas maybe? January?

It's still slow going. We need to hire more full time devs.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: moist_zombie on November 14, 2013, 04:37:52 AM
(FIRSTLY!! :) This isn't directed at you or anyone specifically, Klomvp, just something I've been wanting to post in here for a bit now..)

(From the kickstarter): "Our initial goal is just $7,000 dollars, which allow Sean to dedicate three months of effort to the project. Along with the "time", there are a few other feature obligations that are going to come along with this. The bulk of these three months are going to spent developing the following features.."

That's what the kickstarter was for, to hire a dev to dedicate three months of effort. Not to gold-star 100% complete all the listed features, but to work towards them. "The bulk of these three months are going to be spent DEVELOPING the following features..", developing, not completing :) The only stretch goal that was even achieved was for scenarios and its planned and will be along in its own good time..

Anyone familiar at all with coding or "indie game" development should know that things never go as swiftly as planned, and if they do then that swift pace is usually offset by bug-ridden conflicts that neutralize the haste in the end anyway :|

In nine days Galen will have been working on things for four months, so he's already passed the Kickstarter-required time (3 and a half months).. And I imagine four months from now he'll still be around, contributing. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I somehow doubt it :P

(from the Kickstarter): "Moving forward, other challenges include features taking longer than planned and us encountering various unexpected articles in design or implementation. If that happens, we'll do our best to stretch out the money and insure the work gets done regardless.." That "we'll do our best" means nobody gets to howl or complain if things don't pan out the way you wanted (well, nobody should howl or complain AT ALL if you didn't donate to the project anyway).

As far as Z-levels go there is a lot of work entailed there, that could (basically) never be achieved in three months by a team of three or four devs (ladders, better falling calculation, handling burning/collapsing buildings and their contents, enemy and vehicle behavior concerning flying, new map code for creating natural landmasses and biomes and building multi-floor structures, the way the player character sees these new terrains, leaping and climbing, new functionality to construction to allow upward/downward building, new maps/rooms for all buildings that need a 2nd floor, trees growing taller than one tile, and a hundred other things I can't even think of plus the hundred million tiny bugs that are sure to emerge as progress is made).. Seems pretty foolish to think this could even happen in a short time period if z-levels covered half of those features I just listed (which, in time, they probably will)..

In short (after going long) the Kickstarter campaign stated very clearly that work will be done toward completion of the mentioned goals, and all of them have had some amount of work put towards them. Kickstarter fulfilled! The rest is just icing on the cake that no one should complain about unless their whining sounds very forward-focused and constructive (instead of repetitive and destructive). The Kickstarter in general caused Cataclysm to bloom in popularity and growth, and its still happening right now (ask GitHub!).. Just be happy that talented contributors/fans/players are dedicated to adding depth to our Cataclysmic lives!

PEACE! LOVE! PROGRESS! STUFF!!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Klomvp on November 14, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Hence we need to hire more fulltime devs. I'd donate quadruple if it gets us that much more progress. Cata really really needs a full dedicated dev team to crack open the foundational new stuff. I can only imagine how this would be moving along if we could scrape together for a studio sized full-time team like you see with full-sized kickstarter game projects.

It's this and Dwarf Fortress that desperately need a real studio working on it, though Tarn wouldn't accept "help" short of gunpoint, at least the Cata project is structured more to benefit from it.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: djrodw on November 14, 2013, 09:34:06 AM
I kind of like the way DF is developed, sure it takes one person a long time to make significant changes to mechanics, but it has been an ever changing beast with a tremendously consistent update regime.  Df is ever changing, be it slow and methodical but still consistent.  CDDA has that vibe to it as well, and lately the updates have been streaming in faster than I can keep up sometimes.  Eventually those updates will slow up but with the way things look now, I would not be surprised to still get updates when windows 20 rolls around to violate more of our privacy rights.

I couldn't complain if I wanted to because alas, I didn't get the chance to pitch in on the kickstarter, and as for those who do complain, tell them to stop complaining and add what they want themselves.  As community driven as this whole thing is, it stands to be around for a long long time so those of us who still think coding is some sort of hoodoo magic will eventually get what we want.  so just tell 'em shut up, the game is free, the game is good, and its being worked on by people who want nothing more than to see it get better!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: moist_zombie on November 14, 2013, 11:02:31 PM
Like myself, that Toady is getting older :| I know that plenty of people will pick it up after he's gone, and he's got a good future framework laid out, but its still a scary thought :P

On one hand is Dwarf Fortress, on the other is Masterwork Dwarf Fortress, which is growing pretty quickly itself :| Lots of content there.. Shows what kind of growth can happen when you allow the community in :) And it may be unbalanced a bit, but its generally pretty stable..
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: GlyphGryph on November 19, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Please stop responding to the troll. Troll posts and responses will all be deleted.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Derschlact on November 19, 2013, 03:59:01 AM
Kickstarter seems to be progressing fine and dandy! Keep up the nice work.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Cinghiale on November 19, 2013, 04:09:15 AM
I like how you can make oatmeal and deluxe oatmeal now, that alone is worth nine grand to me.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 19, 2013, 05:54:55 AM
I'm liking all the wildlife that's been expanded since this ks started. Certainly makes forest adventuring comparable to cities for creature variety now!

I just killed and ate a cat.

I was expecting more morale penalties for that. HUNTING IS AWESOME.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: 100Rads on November 19, 2013, 09:28:24 AM
The only thing that has been bugging me since forever is how killing zombie children gives you a morale penalty, but butchering them doesn't. Opening a child with a knife and slicing it up should give a big hit on your morale/sanity.
Anyways, I loved all the previous updates, and Im hoping for more :D Good job devs, keep it coming!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: EkarusRyndren on November 19, 2013, 01:05:12 PM
The only thing that has been bugging me since forever is how killing zombie children gives you a morale penalty, but butchering them doesn't. Opening a child with a knife and slicing it up should give a big hit on your morale/sanity.
Anyways, I loved all the previous updates, and Im hoping for more :D Good job devs, keep it coming!

Gotta agree there, but it makes me laugh...
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 19, 2013, 02:09:22 PM
Yeahhhhh, I'm gonna ask in irc about getting that changed up - half the penalty comes through killing, larger chunk through butchering maybe.

Ugh how nasty would that be? -100 now? Or have to kill this kid like three times down the road and add up -150 as I go 'cause I refuse to butcher the things?

Hahaha wow, children are evil in this game but damn.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vache on November 19, 2013, 02:15:43 PM
Maybe just burn the children...
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 19, 2013, 02:17:45 PM
That would certainly save the tedium of chugging chocolate bars between butcherings. My idea was functionally terrible lol. Maybe if the morale penalty as it is now was just split 50/50 between kills and butcherings.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: FunsizeNinja123 on November 19, 2013, 03:03:37 PM
Anyone want diabetes as a negative trait?

You will require insulin and cannot eat many high sugar foods. Maybe add a flag for "sugar"?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: StopSignal on November 19, 2013, 03:17:34 PM
Anyone want diabetes as a negative trait?

You will require insulin and cannot eat many high sugar foods. Maybe add a flag for "sugar"?

Uhh.. i am diabetic and i don't need insulin. I depend on diet. There are 2 types of diabetes.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on November 19, 2013, 04:00:41 PM
I wouldn't be willing to put in diabetes unless it was fairly accurate, and that would be pretty complicated.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: FunsizeNinja123 on November 19, 2013, 08:15:27 PM
Hmm. Touche. And yeah, I know that there's two kinds of diabetes (Biomed class ftw) but I thought a general one might be simpler :P
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Wayne on November 20, 2013, 01:22:14 AM
Regarding zombie kids and the moral penalty they give for being killed, I've given a little bit of thought to some alternative options. Sorry if this has already been brought up before, but I'd like to share my two cents.

1. Killing zombie children doesn't incur a moral penalty, but butchering them, alongside other corpses of humans, and maybe former pets too, zombie or not, would be the cause of the moral penalty. If I lived in the world of Cata:DDA, I'd personally feel a sense of ease knowing that I've had the once-living bodies of children who had their lives interrupted by the cataclysm put down, but butchering them so they don't get back up again, alongside other former people and pets, would definitely be something I'd have trouble coming to terms with. That, and butchering zombies would likely be really disgusting too.
2. Have the moral penalty diminish over time, as you grow more detached from the old world and more accustomed to humanity's last days. This could possibly work well with the first option I presented.
3. Haven't thought about this one as much, but maybe an "Apathetic" trait could be added?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 20, 2013, 03:17:57 AM
I like how Call of Cthulu handles sanity loss, when faced with the same horror repeatedly - you eventually can't incur further damage, it's stopped being novel, strange, etc. Some kind of die-off might be more appropriate for butchering kidzombies, even if just for one session of butcherings (like clearing out a school).

I'll have to think on this further too. I realize most people don't really think of fish as loveable the way dogs and cats are, but, on the flipside, I've actually had to put down and butcher (for autopsy's sake) my own pet fish to figure out what it was that had my tank sick (turned out to be callamanus worms. don't google that.) I can tell you with absolute certainty, you get better at it, and you get a lot less upset as the utilitarian function of it quickly offers itself up as a means of rationalizing the upsetting process.

An apathetic (or jaded or hardened - some similar word) trait might be more realistically earned rather than bought at game start, but it's definitely something of use if we go making more zombie-knife interactions incur morale drops.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: EkarusRyndren on November 20, 2013, 03:26:28 AM
An apathetic (or jaded or hardened - some similar word) trait might be more realistically earned rather than bought at game start, but it's definitely something of use if we go making more zombie-knife interactions incur morale drops.


"This survivor is getting used to death"
"This survivor doesn't really care about anything anymore"

etc.. I don't remember all of them.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 20, 2013, 03:22:49 PM
This survivor is TOO BUSY SURVIVING TO FEEL SAD ABOUT DEAD STUFF.

Idk either. I think this is a cue I need to post when I'm not saddled with a lack of sleep XD
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on November 20, 2013, 04:22:48 PM
Regarding zombie kids and the moral penalty they give for being killed, I've given a little bit of thought to some alternative options. Sorry if this has already been brought up before, but I'd like to share my two cents.

1. Killing zombie children doesn't incur a moral penalty, but butchering them, alongside other corpses of humans, and maybe former pets too, zombie or not, would be the cause of the moral penalty. If I lived in the world of Cata:DDA, I'd personally feel a sense of ease knowing that I've had the once-living bodies of children who had their lives interrupted by the cataclysm put down, but butchering them so they don't get back up again, alongside other former people and pets, would definitely be something I'd have trouble coming to terms with. That, and butchering zombies would likely be really disgusting too.
Yea, interested in adding this.
2. Have the moral penalty diminish over time, as you grow more detached from the old world and more accustomed to humanity's last days. This could possibly work well with the first option I presented.
This quietly slipped into the experimentals a few days ago.  The guilt penalty degrades linearly until you've killed 100 of the guilt-causing monster, at which point it no longer causes guilt.
3. Haven't thought about this one as much, but maybe an "Apathetic" trait could be added?
Possibly, now that guilt decays with exposure, we might spread it around a bit more, making such a trait worthwhile.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 20, 2013, 04:59:49 PM
Ohhh, this sounds promising. Dark, and promising.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Taraq on November 21, 2013, 04:46:20 AM
This quietly slipped into the experimentals a few days ago.  The guilt penalty degrades linearly until you've killed 100 of the guilt-causing monster, at which point it no longer causes guilt.

Now we'll have to start farming elementary schools for child killing guilt reduction....
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Nighthawk on November 25, 2013, 07:35:43 PM
This quietly slipped into the experimentals a few days ago.  The guilt penalty degrades linearly until you've killed 100 of the guilt-causing monster, at which point it no longer causes guilt.

Now we'll have to start farming elementary schools for child killing guilt reduction....
Actually, one school usually contains almost a hundred of 'em. I once lured them all out and ran over every single one with my truck. Morale was around -400-something.

I think guilt should decrease only from repeated exposure to immoral acts over a long period of time, to make sure that people don't do like I did and just mass-murder an entire elementary school to have no more guilt after that. In reality, killing that many at once would be a single heavily-traumatizing event which would not necessarily make you immune to the effects of guilt.

Dunno if it'd be worth it to implement a more complex system, but that's my two cents, anyway.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kaet on November 26, 2013, 10:27:32 AM
I cant imagine people doing that on a regular basis. The guilt isn't really that bad of a deal.
To me its just a bit of flavor that do basically nothing. And if someone is willing to go farm a school for the specific purpose of getting rid of guilt, then thats more trouble than its worth.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: xLemor on November 27, 2013, 06:05:46 AM
It should only affect you the first few times, they are zombies after all. If something was trying to eat me alive I sure won't feel any guilt.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheGrifter on November 30, 2013, 07:49:51 PM
I think a sanity system would be nice. You know how in the Sims, there's an environment mood thingy? Well, if your safehouse is covered in blood and guts, corpses, and such, maybe you could get a penalty to morale, or something. Perhaps you could get messages like in schizophrenia, but more depressive. "You begin thinking dark thoughts." "You think about putting a gun in your mouth.". No forced suicide or anything though.

When fighting the Lovecraft monsters, there ought to be a lasting "paranoid" mutation, which would work something like insomnia, or schizophrenia. Messages like when you see a monster, and it asks you to stop crafting, but the message would say something more vague, like "You THINK you hear a monster. Would you like to stop crafting? Y/N".

Nothing too gameplay breaking, but the mental aspect needs fleshing out. That, and NPCs.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Taraq on December 01, 2013, 06:41:39 AM
I think a sanity system would be nice. You know how in the Sims, there's an environment mood thingy? Well, if your safehouse is covered in blood and guts, corpses, and such, maybe you could get a penalty to morale, or something. Perhaps you could get messages like in schizophrenia, but more depressive. "You begin thinking dark thoughts." "You think about putting a gun in your mouth.". No forced suicide or anything though.

When fighting the Lovecraft monsters, there ought to be a lasting "paranoid" mutation, which would work something like insomnia, or schizophrenia. Messages like when you see a monster, and it asks you to stop crafting, but the message would say something more vague, like "You THINK you hear a monster. Would you like to stop crafting? Y/N".

Nothing too gameplay breaking, but the mental aspect needs fleshing out. That, and NPCs.

We might need a way to clean up all the blood, guts, and lovecraftian horrors I end up spilling in my house before this gets implemented. Preferably not with DF's infinitely spreading contaminants.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: xLemor on December 07, 2013, 11:09:17 PM
Ghosts of slain npcs would be nice to have, like they could haunt the area the npc died and affect you in various ways like waking you up or spook you once in a while
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ajwilli1 on December 07, 2013, 11:18:55 PM
Ghosts of slain npcs would be nice to have, like they could haunt the area the npc died and affect you in various ways like waking you up or spook you once in a while
I wouldn't say having them haunt the area like a real ghost. But seeing their face before they died while you sleep, or hearing their last words repeat in your head would work great for the guilt of NPC killing. I think that would be a great way to implement a "ghost".
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ArgusTheCat on December 08, 2013, 04:36:05 AM
"You begin thinking dark thoughts." "You think about putting a gun in your mouth.". No forced suicide or anything though.

 "You THINK you hear a monster. Would you like to stop crafting? Y/N".

Nothing too gameplay breaking, but the mental aspect needs fleshing out. That, and NPCs.

Why not?

The problem with sanity systems that give you weird messages is that once you know what they are, they don't mess with you as a player anymore.  If there's no actual game disruption, then there's no real motivation for an experienced player to not just shake it off and keep doing business as normal.

I've been playing Ben Crowshaw's new game, Consuming Shadow, lately.  And you know what it does?  If your sanity drops too low, you WILL kill yourself.  It starts replacing buttons with a 'shoot yourself' option, which becomes harder and harder to avoid.  It is a DAMN good motivation to not go insane.  And I think if we're gonna put sanity in, we need something like that.  We need characters getting terrified and outright ruining whatever they're crafting.  We need drivers to freak the fuck out and swerve wildly to avoid things, regardless of the presence of trees or absence or road.  We need to see monsters as loved ones, and be actually unable to attack them.  And, yes, we need to have character commit suicide if they go too far.

Anything else is toothless and doesn't belong in this game where drinking from the wrong source can be your death.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vache on December 08, 2013, 04:54:15 AM
Only problem is people seem to be split between wanting a difficult game and one that displays a confirmation prompt every time you take an action that might result in you getting hurt.  Putting something in that might force you to kill yourself probably won't be well received by a large group of cata's audience, even though I think the feeling of losing control of your character's actions is probably a good reflection of how your character itself might be feeling.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ajwilli1 on December 08, 2013, 04:59:25 AM
Only problem is people seem to be split between wanting a difficult game and one that displays a confirmation prompt every time you take an action that might result in you getting hurt.  Putting something in that might force you to kill yourself probably won't be well received by a large group of cata's audience, even though I think the feeling of losing control of your character's actions is probably a good reflection of how your character itself might be feeling.
I would say do it like Eternal Darkness did. Instead of an action saying something like "Butcher Corpse? Y/N", it could say "Butcher Self Y/Y". You wont get hurt but you will lose get a negative moral penalty, how do we improve sanity? Playboys? MP3's? Drugs? Fried Spam?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ArgusTheCat on December 08, 2013, 05:25:54 AM
Mind you, I'm not saying that we should replace prompts with suicide options.  That's not gonna work in this style of game.  What I'm saying is that if we HAVE sanity, then we need actual penalties for being insane.  Things that confuse the PLAYER aren't really penalties, when an experienced player can just ignore the ones that they know are false.

The forced suicide thing would be for if you were at, say, 20% sanity and -40 morale.  You just... give up.  It's hard to get there, but if you do, then it's just as bad as letting your health drop to zero.  Players don't complain when they die because they ran out of hitpoints, and it makes sense that running out of the will to live is just as bad.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Taraq on December 08, 2013, 08:13:15 PM
We could just add extreme morale penalties for reaching that threshold - if your character can't learn anything and is severely penalized for being that sad, it would still force the player to try to avoid it without a "Suicide? Y/N" prompt.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: dwarfkoala on December 11, 2013, 02:38:28 AM
Also, I can reach that -40 threshhold by eating one piece of paper or 2 pieces of uncooked meat (IIRC)

It's gotta be at least -200, as severe alcohol deprivation leads you to -120.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: FunsizeNinja123 on December 11, 2013, 02:11:11 PM
I had -90023 moral once.

Don't ask me what I did.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: ArgusTheCat on December 12, 2013, 02:39:54 AM
I had -90023 moral once.

Don't ask me what I did.


WHAT DID YOU DO.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Nighthawk on December 12, 2013, 02:40:53 AM
-90023 morale?

Shit, man, that's a lot of mutated fetuses.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: FunsizeNinja123 on December 12, 2013, 09:00:47 PM
-90023 morale?

Shit, man, that's a lot of mutated fetuses.

Found quite the collection of arms and legs in an anthill, then decided to clear out the school nearby. Then I saw that I was thirstly, then I tried to drink my water but I was carrying some bleach...

And this was around the time of the "Letter dupe glitch". Plus I did a few more things.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Grendus on December 13, 2013, 05:03:05 AM
One way to work with a sanity/morale issue would be to remove options as the survivor's sanity/morale degrades. For example, currently if your morale is too low you can't craft. At lower sanity/morale, it may not allow you to take actions that cause a morale penalty (eating spoiled or unpleasant food), then it blocks actions that don't give a morale boost (can't eat a tin of ravioli or drink clean water), then actions that don't give enough of a morale boost (and since you can't cook, you need to have comfort foods pre-prepared). Eventually other actions stop working as well - the survivor slows down, begins to do less damage and fire less accurately as he/she simply no longer cares about self preservation. At the final stage full on catatonia kicks in and the survivor will stop acting for long periods of time regardless of dangers - he/she could starve to death because he/she can't think of a reason to eat.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: infectedmochi on December 13, 2013, 05:16:45 AM
Nice idea, that would be plausible solution I think. At low enough morale the survivor will stop caring even when faced with zombies and just stand there, frozen, and let the zombies munch him.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Nighthawk on December 14, 2013, 05:23:51 PM
Actually, speed reduction would make a lot of sense if you had low morale. Think about it - if you're not motivated, are you going to move at maximum speed anywhere? No - you're going to slump along, nowhere near energized enough to make an effort.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Rookie on December 15, 2013, 01:29:25 PM
I think the low sanity/morale should have (maybe with the right traits) also some good or at least neutral aspects.
Turning into a careless psycho could remove further regrets from butchering children or maybe lower pain penalties.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: pulsefrequency on December 18, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
I would say do it like Eternal Darkness did. Instead of an action saying something like "Butcher Corpse? Y/N", it could say "Butcher Self Y/Y". You wont get hurt but you will lose get a negative moral penalty, how do we improve sanity? Playboys? MP3's? Drugs? Fried Spam?

i just want to say that Eternal Darkness was a great game and i like that it even came up in this discussion, its like i dont even are what else happens today
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on March 14, 2014, 05:00:38 AM
Oh hey, apparently I asked this question in release thread instead of here :). Who should I contact to learn a bit about current status of Kickstarter Rewards? Mine was creating an NPC, was a list for that created already somewhere and I didn't get my email, or do I have to wait longer to be able to contribute?

P.S. It said "Estimated delivery: Oct 2013" :) I know it was not easy to do because we have this:

"Myself and swwu have been hard at work on the NPC code needed to fulfill the rewards for those backers who wanted a custom NPC. I've also finalized the form for the Thank You letters for our most awesome backers at the highest tiers - each one will be unique and have a "story" behind it. I hope you enjoy them, when they arrive, which probably won't be until after Christmas. The NPCs might end up taking a few months into next year to finish, but we're hoping to start actually putting NPC requests into the new system by later January."

So, it's March now, how is it going? I am not in a hurry and I am okay if it's EVER put in, doesn't matter when. I am just afraid I missed a survey or something.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on March 14, 2014, 05:47:06 AM
You have not missed it no.  Unfortunately not much more to say, we could grind through gathering those and sticking them into the currently broken NPCs, and then transfer them over once the new NPCs are working, but I honestly don't think that would make anyone happy :/
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on March 17, 2014, 09:50:11 PM
Nah, but if some person could create a thread with info about custom stuff we are supposed to add and kept updating it slowly (i.e. player created houses - collected/partly implemented, player named NPCs - collected/not implemented, player created NPCs - not collected/not implemented) then it would make us all feel better and show that you care. I personally love what are you doing and I keep thinking about future of the game, that is why I want to be a part of it :).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: pulsefrequency on March 17, 2014, 10:14:39 PM
Nah, but if some person could create a thread with info about custom stuff we are supposed to add and kept updating it slowly (i.e. player created houses - collected/partly implemented, player named NPCs - collected/not implemented, player created NPCs - not collected/not implemented) then it would make us all feel better and show that you care. I personally love what are you doing and I keep thinking about future of the game, that is why I want to be a part of it :).

this

and it should be stickied, at least the one about payer rewards
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on March 28, 2014, 07:18:59 AM
Well maybe the people don't really care about supporters and only care about the game, that would be fine for me as well because I can understand that. Anyway it would be nice to have an "official" reply about that some time in the future.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Zireael on March 28, 2014, 08:02:33 AM
The z-level needed features are now listed on the github and the rewards/bounties for doing them should be up soon.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Deon on March 28, 2014, 08:04:55 PM
Thank you Zireael :).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on July 06, 2014, 07:53:13 AM
(As I understand it, backer-contributed NPC names have been in.  This is the first major step in Kickstarter-relavant* NPC work that I've seen, so advertising it: custom convo, mission/AI, and to some extent gear/stat/skill issue.)

Hey, for the folks looking for NPCs, Acidia's taking custom conversations, etc in the Refugee Center.  If you've got a personality fleshed out, you might check the Library thread (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=7032.0) and let Acidia know so xe can work it in!

*Yeah, overhauling the infrastructure was a major thing, but didn't immediately affect KS issues.  This does.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on July 08, 2014, 05:13:45 PM
Ahhh, that's good news!! I'll check that out.

Ugh, I feel like such an ass for asking (my avatar better be the butt one right now) but I am not on the official list of backers since I contributed with that comic instead of literal funds. I didn't have a credit card at the time to additionally do so financially. :c

Am I on that NPC name list? I'd like to be as Edmund Hawkins, but not if it means pushing for something I haven't technically earned.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: thedemondude1 on July 08, 2014, 10:16:18 PM
Didnt get to do it :(
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on July 08, 2014, 11:11:49 PM
Ahhh, that's good news!! I'll check that out.

Ugh, I feel like such an ass for asking (my avatar better be the butt one right now) but I am not on the official list of backers since I contributed with that comic instead of literal funds. I didn't have a credit card at the time to additionally do so financially. :c

Am I on that NPC name list? I'd like to be as Edmund Hawkins, but not if it means pushing for something I haven't technically earned.

Not as a backer, but Edmund and Hawkins can show up as random-rolled names in the relevant slots.  I know I wasn't comfortable contributing via online-banking, either (would have just sent a check for $40 or whatever to get a custom building).
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Miloch on November 09, 2014, 05:54:32 AM
So if we donate using the current links what do the funds go to?
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on November 09, 2014, 06:08:15 AM
So if we donate using the current links what do the funds go to?

If you want to post a bounty on a given Issue, the bountysource links on Git are the way to go.  Likewise if you want to make sure your money goes to a particular portion of z-levels.

The Support Cataclysm button is a general fund ATM.  Chances are Kevin and/or GlyphGryph will use it to increase the z-level bounties, but to my knowledge there's no specific mandate that such happen.

That said, the z-levels seem Cursed as nobody's managed to actually finish 'em, and folks who try tend to Mysteriously Fade Away from the project.  We could use a few good people to shut that curse down.



As for the Kickstarter:
Aside from a hangup in the JSON parser (I expect we can fix that in about a day's worth of work), we have the infrastructure to build people's houses pretty much as soon as we receive their plans.

NPCs will take longer to turn around from plans to implementation (and would be in a temporary location for the moment), but we can take you prisoner in the bandit camp or shelter you with the refugees more or less now.  (You could be a bandit, too, but then folks'll probably kill you on sight, and nobody will care about any personality, etc.)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Miloch on November 09, 2014, 08:32:48 PM
My only knowledge of coding is decades old LPC mud code....  I just donated $30 to the general fund.  Use it to your best discretion.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Turtlicious on November 23, 2014, 03:12:21 PM
So if we donate using the current links what do the funds go to?

If you want to post a bounty on a given Issue, the bountysource links on Git are the way to go.  Likewise if you want to make sure your money goes to a particular portion of z-levels.

The Support Cataclysm button is a general fund ATM.  Chances are Kevin and/or GlyphGryph will use it to increase the z-level bounties, but to my knowledge there's no specific mandate that such happen.

That said, the z-levels seem Cursed as nobody's managed to actually finish 'em, and folks who try tend to Mysteriously Fade Away from the project.  We could use a few good people to shut that curse down.



As for the Kickstarter:
Aside from a hangup in the JSON parser (I expect we can fix that in about a day's worth of work), we have the infrastructure to build people's houses pretty much as soon as we receive their plans.

NPCs will take longer to turn around from plans to implementation (and would be in a temporary location for the moment), but we can take you prisoner in the bandit camp or shelter you with the refugees more or less now.  (You could be a bandit, too, but then folks'll probably kill you on sight, and nobody will care about any personality, etc.)

I've spent about 2 months trying to work on the 3D code, and the long and short of it is this:

As the game currently is programmed, you're not going to find anyone able to do it. It'd take at least a full 2 weeks of works laying down the framework, and you'd have to pretty much have to gut almost every single thing and re-program how it works. Even the small things like making monsters move around when you're in another Z-level are damn near impossible, and interacting between those Z-levels is insane. There are currently just too many pointers to write and re-write, I've given up on it.

As a joke project, I've almost gotten Cataclysm to load up in Unreal Engine.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: StopSignal on November 23, 2014, 04:41:09 PM
I am actually fairly happy with how it's right now, there is no need to have such a big interaction between z levels. I think the only thing needed would be that, before going to another one, the stairs you use more or less scan it's surroundings to make the zombies go up in a while, more or less like it works for now but with a bigger scan radius? That would be enough for me. There are already experimental z levels and I think they are pretty much awesome.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 23, 2014, 10:12:48 PM
You would be suggesting that stairs would effectively have double the reality bubble being processed around them. Triple if there's a basement AND an upstairs. If things were more than one floor apart (office buildings), there would still be a lack of interaction by simply travelling two floors away from a monster.

I dunno, maybe that's still within reasonable limitations to expect decent game performance but I could see even a simple hack-y fix causing staircases to become lagbombs that nobody has love for. which bums me out, but even in this relatively flatworld, cata is pretty damned awesome and I have yet to grow tired of it.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: StopSignal on November 24, 2014, 03:26:25 AM
Nonono, like to scan it's surroundings before changing z level, and then calculate a number of movements depending on how far the creature was of the stairs and if it was chasing you to make it start climbing the stairs.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on November 24, 2014, 05:14:28 AM
I've been able to get somewhat acceptable performance with over 1,000 zombies onscreen, that's not really the limiting factor.
The thing about z-levels is simply that it's a lot of work, we can get performance to be good even with that.
Trust me, I'm a professional :D
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on November 24, 2014, 06:23:46 AM
Ahh, I see then. I have learned a thing!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: stk2008 on December 08, 2014, 08:55:28 AM
This sounds rather worrying :(.

Z levels being a lot of work I mean :(.

Lets just hope one day it does come true :)
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Closet Pankin on December 09, 2014, 08:40:22 PM
Just throwing this out there, but if you do a kickstarter and someone posts it to /r/Games or /r/PCGaming or something like that, it's bound to get a lot of attention. Hell, Cataclysm has a lot more "proof of concepts" than other Kickstarter projects, if you catch my drift!
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on December 09, 2014, 11:46:37 PM
Just throwing this out there, but if you do a kickstarter and someone posts it to /r/Games or /r/PCGaming or something like that, it's bound to get a lot of attention. Hell, Cataclysm has a lot more "proof of concepts" than other Kickstarter projects, if you catch my drift!

We did a kickstarter.  Gonna suggest you read the whole thread, possibly a few other ones in this board.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Closet Pankin on December 10, 2014, 06:19:09 PM
Just throwing this out there, but if you do a kickstarter and someone posts it to /r/Games or /r/PCGaming or something like that, it's bound to get a lot of attention. Hell, Cataclysm has a lot more "proof of concepts" than other Kickstarter projects, if you catch my drift!

We did a kickstarter.  Gonna suggest you read the whole thread, possibly a few other ones in this board.  Thanks.

I know you did a kickstarter, I'm saying putting word out there that the kickstarter exists would have absolutely gotten more funding. This game is way under-appreciated in my opinion.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: bubbadoo14 on December 10, 2014, 10:06:37 PM
Just throwing this out there, but if you do a kickstarter and someone posts it to /r/Games or /r/PCGaming or something like that, it's bound to get a lot of attention. Hell, Cataclysm has a lot more "proof of concepts" than other Kickstarter projects, if you catch my drift!

We did a kickstarter.  Gonna suggest you read the whole thread, possibly a few other ones in this board.  Thanks.

I know you did a kickstarter, I'm saying putting word out there that the kickstarter exists would have absolutely gotten more funding. This game is way under-appreciated in my opinion.

Maybe we could try a kickstarter again? Since the first one failed miserably because our professional coder ran out on us. :/
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on December 11, 2014, 05:22:44 AM
Maybe we could try a kickstarter again? Since the first one failed miserably because our professional coder ran out on us. :/

Personally, that deters me from wanting to try again. Also that inexhaustibly lazy cat has finally left us alone, I don't want to have to attract that moth back to the flame.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: bubbadoo14 on December 12, 2014, 09:26:38 AM
Maybe we could try a kickstarter again? Since the first one failed miserably because our professional coder ran out on us. :/

Personally, that deters me from wanting to try again. Also that inexhaustibly lazy cat has finally left us alone, I don't want to have to attract that moth back to the flame.
I dunno I think he has moved on to other things, I mean last time he was on his own forum was December 28, 2013.

Also http://catmgs.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,18.0.html (http://catmgs.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,18.0.html) someone had doxed him too and he seems to jump to things to and fro.

Quote
a middle aged man (41?) with a decent resume who at some point prior to 2007(?) appears to have completely snapped or was always unstable.

Quote
a history of obsessions, unfinished projects, disorganization, and short periods of employment.

Quote
The recent history of obsessions to abandon and latch onto a new one with existing projects complicated by poor cooperation and splinter projects





Quote
I set out with the intent of humiliating you, but what I found of you was so god damned pathetic I felt I'd rather post a wake-up call.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Caconym on December 12, 2014, 09:58:46 AM
[snip]
What a shocking un-reveal.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on December 12, 2014, 12:06:20 PM
I've done that too. I have no desire to rehash that month.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Closet Pankin on December 12, 2014, 08:14:42 PM
I guarantee you that if there was another Kickstarter, and word got out to the PC gaming community (esp. on Reddit) it would get a lot of attention. It's a fantastic game with even better possibilities.

Though I'd wager another crowd-funding site would be a better idea. Kickstarter doesn't give two shits about their users and a few of the higher-ups are racist as shit. It's not my call, obviously.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: bubbadoo14 on December 13, 2014, 08:15:01 AM
We could try Patreon. :v
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Closet Pankin on December 15, 2014, 07:07:45 PM
We could try Patreon. :v

I would say do an Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign. I would absolutely help spread word.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: LoneTophat on December 15, 2014, 11:54:09 PM
So I read this thread, right? Did you end up refunding all that cash to those customers you jipped? Just curious. Because you did, in fact, fail to deliver. They deserve compensation.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on December 16, 2014, 12:59:33 AM
You reminded me of someone and I flipped my shit for a moment there. I think the money's been put into some kind of reward fund for ...ugh I can't explain it. Hopefully Kevin or Glyph can re-clarify.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: KA101 on December 16, 2014, 01:05:46 AM
You reminded me of someone and I flipped my shit for a moment there. I think the money's been put into some kind of reward fund for ...ugh I can't explain it. Hopefully Kevin or Glyph can re-clarify.

It's the bounty funding for z-levels, yeah.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: LoneTophat on December 16, 2014, 03:02:30 PM
That... doesn't sound useful for a game's development. Sounds like an excuse not to refund the money, honestly. When you lost your main coder, a regrettable affair, you folks should have refunded people. Unless you can find a new full-time coder? Or what? I don't claim to know a lot about this community, I just don't think it's kosher, the business practices. I hope you folks reach all the goals you've set, but don't use crowd funding again if you're untrustworthy on the follow through.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Robik on December 16, 2014, 03:23:28 PM
That... doesn't sound useful for a game's development. Sounds like an excuse not to refund the money, honestly. When you lost your main coder, a regrettable affair, you folks should have refunded people. Unless you can find a new full-time coder? Or what? I don't claim to know a lot about this community, I just don't think it's kosher, the business practices. I hope you folks reach all the goals you've set, but don't use crowd funding again if you're untrustworthy on the follow through.

Can you please spare us of your moralizing rant? Make yourself useful and go protest against bad business practices of actual businesses. People behind this project are making this game free for all of us and open source at top of it, investing countless hours of their free time. Last thing we need is people like you to discourage them from their effort.

You don't agree with Kickstarter. Good. Leave it at that.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: TheFlame52 on December 16, 2014, 03:53:25 PM
I'm gonna have to agree with Robik here.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Abbysynth on December 16, 2014, 04:18:10 PM
Playing devil's advocate, I personally think that some kind of accountability should always be in place when someone acquires a large amount of money meant for a large scale project like this. How much Kickstarter money was raised? Where did it go to? Is it being stockpiled or is it lining someone's bank account? They're pretty simple questions and I don't think unfair ones to ask.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: vache on December 16, 2014, 04:36:26 PM
Caveat: I was not in charge of any of the kickstarter organization or money or any of this.  What follows is my understanding of the kickstarter situation, and it may not be fully informed.

This has all been said before many times.  The original developer, Developer A went missing between when funds were raised and work began.  Backup developer, Developer B, was hired instead.  Developer B worked for the three months he was contracted to work, but had overpromised and underdelivered, and when his contract was up he promptly disappeared.  However, the kickstarter was not for the work to be completed and released, it was to hire someone to work towards those goals.  Developer B did what he was hired to do, but unfortunately did not achieve any of the programming goals besides tiles support.  The money in his contract is gone and spent.  There remains a modest amount of money from the kickstarter, around $1000-2000, which has been earmarked for a bounty reward for the completion of z-level support.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on December 16, 2014, 05:18:04 PM
A few minor corrections.  GalenEvil disappeared at an essentially random time, not the end of his contract or a particular unit of work or after a payment, just disappeared one day.  Frankly my biggest concern with respect to his disappearance is that he's ok.  He did not abscond with any money or to the best of my knowledge avoid doing any work.  Whatever the reason, he just quit.
As for the work done, he knocked out a good bit of infrastructure work that we planned on having him do.  He did not make it to the headline feature, but not for avoiding it, he was following the development plan we had laid out and simply did not make it that far.
I don't have the figures handy, but the kickstarter raised about $9,000, a large chunk of which was paid to the hired developer as planned, and the remainder is in bountysource, waiting for someone to tackle the various issues laid out there to move us toward z-levels.  I'm aware of three different people that have attempted to tackle some of them, but so far there hasn't been any solid progress toward those goals.
To put that figure in perspective, if developed commercially DDA would easily be a million-dollar project if you only count the programmer time spent on it.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on December 16, 2014, 08:37:02 PM
We also had a troll who dogged us harder than a lot of those bots we had the other day did, and it left us all ragged as hell about the whole process of explaining where the money went. I nearly mistook LoneTopHat for him given the nature of the criticisms - Again, I am sorry. If anyone gets defensive in a hurry, it's because we've been asked a lot of these questions by a person who didn't actually want answers, like you asked. Only to be Right. At least, we think that was the motive. The man was nuts. Ask someone in PM for details if you're really curious, as another rehash does not deserve space in any thread. It was hell.

The situation has been concluded to the best of our abilities (Well, 'our' being those actually in charge of handling. I was mostly a voice in the events,) under what amounted to a really shitty situation, what with Galen vanishing and the mother of all trolls. Galen always came across as a good person when we chatted. There was no explanation of his vanishing. I'm still concerned about that.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: LoneTophat on December 16, 2014, 10:13:00 PM
Thank you everyone for the information. I was not aware you had dealt with a negative element before on this issue, but I can assure you I had the best intents at asking questions. Honestly, it was because I was curious about investing my money into a future crowd funding program for this game, but didn't understand what occurred before. I assumed the worst, and there has recently been a very public backlash against crowd funding for this very discussion, follow through and accountability. It's important to talk about it though, as consumers, and I thank the developer for speaking on the subject. It seems like a pretty shitty affair for everyone, and we can hope nothing life changing occurred to the developer who disappeared.

I do have a few remaining questions. How is the development process coming, and what are the chances of stagnation and abandonment? I really don't want to see this happen. How can I help find you a programmer? Isn't Deon a programmer? Yell at him, maybe. Indiegogo may be a decent avenue, as well.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: bubbadoo14 on December 16, 2014, 11:03:57 PM
Thank you everyone for the information. I was not aware you had dealt with a negative element before on this issue, but I can assure you I had the best intents at asking questions. Honestly, it was because I was curious about investing my money into a future crowd funding program for this game, but didn't understand what occurred before. I assumed the worst, and there has recently been a very public backlash against crowd funding for this very discussion, follow through and accountability. It's important to talk about it though, as consumers, and I thank the developer for speaking on the subject. It seems like a pretty shitty affair for everyone, and we can hope nothing life changing occurred to the developer who disappeared.

I do have a few remaining questions. How is the development process coming, and what are the chances of stagnation and abandonment? I really don't want to see this happen. How can I help find you a programmer? Isn't Deon a programmer? Yell at him, maybe. Indiegogo may be a decent avenue, as well.
Oh no the coding scene is really active, I can't remember what you call it but anyone is able to code in/ fix/ change anything in the code and the main developers decide if it should/ good enough to be added to the game. In fact the newest stable release wasn't that long ago and had a TON of new stuff, bugfixes, and the like.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Pthalocy on December 17, 2014, 04:23:39 AM
Open Source would be the words you're looking for!

Yeah the whole 'main devs' thing is more like 'top contributors'. Also either Kevin, Glyph, or both technically own the forums to my knowledge. We use github for working on the game and keeping everyone's contributions from getting messy, and the rule of thumb is that you cannot merge your own additions, only other coder's submissions. That way, new content is peer-reviewed in some fashion before being added.

I'd get in on the action too but I am not fluent in programming languages. So I am mostly moral support around here XD
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Jarlaxle on December 17, 2014, 05:44:49 AM
 I will say this about CC:DDA and I repeat it to anyone who cares to listen. I haven't spent a single dollar on this game, and no one has asked for one, and I cannot for the life of me remember having this much !!FUN!!
 A lot of "free games" are designed to get you to a certain point where you have to invest money to be competitive. CC:DDA doesn't want you to be competitive and is really more concerned with murdering you in as brutal as fashion possible. The curb stomping scene from American History X comes to mind.
 I have never seen a bigger labor of love as Cataclysm. My hats off to any and all who have made this game possible and thank you fine folks for an awesome ever changing great game.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: Kevin Granade on December 17, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Clarification, we have absolutely no plans of running another funding campaign, crowd- or otherwise.  It comes up again periodically, but we literally don't have anything to spend it on. 

Development continues to proceed at a very rapid pace in general, and we have quite a lot of contributors.
Title: Re: Kickstarter Thread - The Kickstarter is being fulfilled.
Post by: RipRoarinBoogerPenis on December 17, 2014, 05:58:23 PM
Kind of a side note here: The funds left over from the kick starter that are on bounty source, that needs to be advertised better. There is cash money up for grabs. I don't know, it seems foolish to have something like that and not have it prominently displayed on the front page.