Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - Official Forums

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead => Announcements => Topic started by: Kevin Granade on September 16, 2013, 02:28:49 AM

Title: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 16, 2013, 02:28:49 AM
In honor of improved graphics (tile support) and the ability to generate a game with huge cities full of egregious numbers of zombies, Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 is titled "Romero".  This release also comes with complete or near-complete Russian and Chinese translations, a player memorial file, save compatibility moving forward, and probably the most frequently requested feature of the game, shopping carts.

The release is available from the usual locations:
Windows SDL: http://assets.cataclysmdda.com/downloads/windows_binaries/cddasdl-v0.8.zip
Windows GDI: http://assets.cataclysmdda.com/downloads/windows_binaries/cddacurses-v0.8.zip
Linux SDL: http://assets.cataclysmdda.com/downloads/linux_binaries/cddasdl-v0.8.tar.gz
Linux GDI: http://assets.cataclysmdda.com/downloads/linux_binaries/cddacurses-v0.8.tar.gz
Mac curses: http://assets.cataclysmdda.com/downloads/mac_binaries/cdda-v0.8.tar.gz
Mac SDL: http://assets.cataclysmdda.com/downloads/mac_binaries/cddasdl-v0.8.tar.gz
Official release page on github: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/releases/tag/0.8
Repository: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA

See the full changelog for other features:
Highlights:
---
Releasing with Russian, Chinese, and bla translations.
Draggable vhicles, e.g. shopping carts.
Memorial file listing player history.
Tiles!
Basic farming support.
Support for save backwards compatability.
Option to adjust city size, make a whole map metropolis!
Option to adjust monster density, walls of zombies!

Features:
---
Intelligence dependent skill rust option.
Uncanny Dodge CBM
Weight management rework, weight now in grams.
If the player is overloaded, the strain causes pain.
Display option for metric vs imperial vehicle speed.
Beanbag rounds for shotguns and grenade launchers.
Added headlights that can be aimed at installation time.
Active bionics.
Throw single items from stacks instead of whole stack.
Updated many menus to updated menu system that provides acrolling, filtering and more unified hotkeys.
Crafting overhaul, crafting no longer trains combat skills and vice versa.
Reworked rain protection, items now have waterproof flags.
Crafting recipes you can actually perform bubble to the top of the list.
New laser weapons.
Pneumatic weapons.
Narrow sidebar option.
Support unicode character names.
Aim-related gunmods.
Automatically adjust aim path if the default path is blocked by something.
Play Now game start for one-click game initiation.
Rework encumbrance to remove nonsensical negative encumbrance.
Loosen strictness of encumbrance in general.
Heated melee weapons.
Plastic item crafting.
Option overhaul with new tabbed menu.
Swimming now makes you wet.
Wetness can be a good thing when it's hot and you're properly attired.
Wetness effects asjusted by some mutations.
Portable Game system now usable, has playable games snake, sokoban, and robotfindskitten.
Vehicle components, vehicles, mutations and traits are moddable in json.
fruit bushes spawn in groups.
Significant rebalance of fire, emits less smoke, and small fires should burn longer.
Basic farming support.
Welding rig vehicle component.
When in a square with clothes and bedding, sleeping players will use them for warmth.
Corpse-filled pits cause less or no damage.
Adrenaline shot item.
Nerfed Adrenaline rush effect, no more bullettime.
Small vehicles are draggable and pushable. Added shopping carts.
Funnel now directs rain into container in the same square during rain.
Mutation dreams.
Siphon water out of vehicles with water tanks.
Ice labs.
Vehicle collisions based on SCIENCE!
Streamlined selecting same ammo over and over again.
Blacksmithing.
Pickling and other food preservation techniques.
Re-enabled mouth encumbrance.
Caseless ammunition and guns.
New heavy weapons.
More features spawning in houses.
Significantly reduced map save size.
Lots of professions.
Many many items and crafting recipes.
Energy weapon special effects.
Scrollbars in many list menus.
Vehicles can spawn smashed into each other.

Bugfixes:
---
Mouse cursor hiding.
Terminal text display fixes.
Very significant performance improvements.
Removed input delay.
Allow exiting from long-term activities like wait.
All titlebars should use the correct version number.
Remove busywaitin WinGDI build. (caused 100% CPU usage)
No more "nothing" map tiles.
Hand out letters to bionics so more than a few are usable.
Monsters no longer attack themselves.
Fatal hunger/thirst/fatigue detected correctly.
Major monster handling performance improvements to make 50x zombies work.
Nerfed smoke inhalation.
Major performance increase in mapgen to make huge cities generate before the heat death of the universe.
Rain and acid rain doesn't bother you when underwater.
Batched raycasting optimization.
Fixed old inventory letter overlapping bug.
Use shadowcasting algorithm for fast and accurate fov calculation.
Vehicles no longer spawn floating above water.
Loaded ammo, such as nails in a nailgun can be used for crafting.
Light from items more consistent.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: BeigeSand on September 16, 2013, 03:06:05 AM
Blacksmithing?That. Is. Awesome. I’m gonna forge myself a katana!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Nighthawk on September 16, 2013, 03:32:21 AM
THERE IS AN OTAKU PROFESSION.

Whoever put that in there... you are my hero.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Tegga21 on September 16, 2013, 03:49:02 AM
Thank you!

One kind of major issue... the npc graphic is very odd, what is it supposed to be?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Darrus Dreadtiger on September 16, 2013, 03:54:06 AM
Alright, let's see if I can get them farming to work. Couldn't figure it out in the experimental, if it was already in, that is...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 16, 2013, 04:17:17 AM
Alright, let's see if I can get them farming to work. Couldn't figure it out in the experimental, if it was already in, that is...
Just 'e'xamine a dirt mound and you should be able to plant seeds. Right now I think it just takes the first seed it finds in the inventory, but eventually you should be able to choose.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Tegga21 on September 16, 2013, 04:27:33 AM
I think the NPC graphic is currently what is meant to be the poppy flower graphic
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: StopSignal on September 16, 2013, 04:29:58 AM
"Vehicle collisions based on SCIENCE!"

Oh oh... we are all going to die. Can someone explain this?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Darrus Dreadtiger on September 16, 2013, 04:31:52 AM
Alright, let's see if I can get them farming to work. Couldn't figure it out in the experimental, if it was already in, that is...
Just 'e'xamine a dirt mound and you should be able to plant seeds. Right now I think it just takes the first seed it finds in the inventory, but eventually you should be able to choose.

I see, but do I have a way of creating mounds of dirt by myself?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: StopSignal on September 16, 2013, 04:35:31 AM
Shovel?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 16, 2013, 04:42:09 AM
Hoe.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HunterAlpha1 on September 16, 2013, 05:46:42 AM
Hoe.
bitch!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: ComputerWarrior on September 16, 2013, 07:07:55 AM
Yay, and with so many new features too! Brilliant job, guys!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 16, 2013, 07:08:06 AM
oh haha, I guess that hasn't been fixed in Deon's tileset yet :P I think that Deon's is the default tileset now, with SirHoder's tileset as a secondary with pre-added but commented out path information.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: RonniDeWorm on September 16, 2013, 07:15:49 AM
The linux links (GDI + SDL) are giving me a 404 error (including the one on the homepage), just thought I'd mention it, I'll compile it from source.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Cinghiale on September 16, 2013, 07:57:04 AM
Cool!

Can I get my foot in the door right at the outset and request a removal of queries option for 0.9's milestones? No more butcher queries...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 16, 2013, 08:55:55 AM
Cool!

Can I get my foot in the door right at the outset and request a removal of queries option for 0.9's milestones? No more butcher queries...
A more likely thing is that butchering will begin to take long enough that you will want a query option for it. :P
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Tegga21 on September 16, 2013, 01:25:50 PM
Cool!

Can I get my foot in the door right at the outset and request a removal of queries option for 0.9's milestones? No more butcher queries...
A more likely thing is that butchering will begin to take long enough that you will want a query option for it. :P

I hope they don't make it too time consuming, the daylight is short as it is!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 16, 2013, 03:08:16 PM
The linux links (GDI + SDL) are giving me a 404 error (including the one on the homepage), just thought I'd mention it, I'll compile it from source.
Thanks, copy/paste error, fixed now.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: JackFlappigan on September 16, 2013, 04:17:30 PM
This looks fantastic! I'm sure the megacities will adequately show me why I won't survive this sort of thing in real life.
Guess I'll be having a late one tonight.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Poetich77 on September 16, 2013, 04:26:46 PM
Hi guys! Very nice update, but I have one question: why the option "Revive Zombies" was removed?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 16, 2013, 04:39:54 PM
Because it's an inherent property of zombies, if they don't have that they're basically just cannibals or something.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: phaethon on September 16, 2013, 06:41:28 PM
Cool!

Can I get my foot in the door right at the outset and request a removal of queries option for 0.9's milestones? No more butcher queries...
A more likely thing is that butchering will begin to take long enough that you will want a query option for it. :P

Hold up.  I like zombies reviving if they aren't thoroughly killed, but butchering is a major break in gameplay as it is.  For every zombie that I kill, I have to go back and press Shift+B to really kill them.  First of all, butchering should probably get its own lowercase key.  Shift is used way too much in this game already, and butchering is a common task.  The query dialogue box compounds the break in gameplay (and requires another shift key combination if you don't turn off case sensitivity).  If butchering takes longer, that just means less killing before I have to go back to base and sleep.  It seems like this whole thing is taking the play experience in the wrong direction.

So if the devs want butchering to take longer, I vote that it is okay as long as the only use of butchering be to obtain food and harvest bionics from shocker zombies.  As a balance, make the (s)mash command pulp zombies in 1 turn to keep them from reviving (as it is it takes many turns).  This would actually make butchering zombies less of an interruption to gameplay (a good thing) and make butchering more realistic.  From a lore perspective, smashing a zombie's head to keep them from reviving seems fine.  The biggest affect on gameplay would be that survival is harder to lvl up.  Butchering zombies naturally takes the survival skill to ~4 or so (depending on skill rust settings).

What do you think?

Oh, and by the way, do pulped zombies currently stay dead forever or do they eventually revive?  I know they stay dead for a long time.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 16, 2013, 06:48:05 PM
They stay dead forever. And yeah I think the goal is to make butchering primarily be for resouce extracting, and make pulping the best way to deal with individual zombies (depending on weapon strength) and "gathering together and burning" the most efficient way to deal with large quantities of them.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Darrus Dreadtiger on September 16, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
I see that travelling elevators still is a bad idea.

Makes the game crash. Also, there's still a fair share of debug messages popping up, like "no such zombie" or "there's already a zombie here" and the likes.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Cinghiale on September 16, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
Cool!

Can I get my foot in the door right at the outset and request a removal of queries option for 0.9's milestones? No more butcher queries...
A more likely thing is that butchering will begin to take long enough that you will want a query option for it. :P

...ugh...you devs are sadists...well as long as the butchering/pulping system gets some kind of streamlining to make it less tedious/arthritis inducing. Please focus on "quality of life" improvements for 0.9 milestones. I think there is a lot of long hanging coding fruit to make the game less miserable at some parts. Brainstorm on these before diving aspergedly into the kickstarter goals. Just my two cents...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Tchey on September 16, 2013, 07:28:56 PM
Again a good update, really nice to follow this game from the beginning !

Can you post an announcement on the main page of the website, about 0.8 released ? It's still "a glympse to the futur".
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Rivet on September 16, 2013, 07:34:05 PM
For every zombie that I kill, I have to go back and press Shift+B to really kill them.  First of all, butchering should probably get its own lowercase key.  Shift is used way too much in this game already, and butchering is a common task.  The query dialogue box compounds the break in gameplay (and requires another shift key combination if you don't turn off case sensitivity).

You can remap it to whatever lower case letter is convenient for you in the options menu.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 16, 2013, 08:19:18 PM
Hi guys! Very nice update, but I have one question: why the option "Revive Zombies" was removed?
Technically it wasn't so much as "removed" as "replaced with a monster specific flag", meaning you can crack open the files (or edit the jsons once the upcoming monster jsonization goes out) to edit whether or not a monster revives on an individual basis.

And yeah, there will be definite streamline improvements on pulping before we extend butchery times too much.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kaet on September 16, 2013, 09:29:42 PM
"gathering together and burning" the most efficient way to deal with large quantities of them.
To do that you'd need an easy way to gather them all. Maybe give the grabbing and pulling function from shopping carts to corpses?
That would make things a whole lot easier.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 16, 2013, 09:35:06 PM
Pretty sure that's in the plan anyway - we've got grabbing for vehicles and furniture, so it makes sense to extend that to heavy items.

Maybe add an "auto gather corpses" command?  Stand on a spot, activate command, and you'll retrieve any corpses in sight and drag them to the spot where you are standing?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 16, 2013, 09:39:35 PM
I was actually planning on expanding the grab+drag operation to items and furniture too (and get rid of my awful hack in the construction menu), but it turns out to be a bit more complicated than dragging vehicles, go figure.

Need to look into some more draggable/specific vehicles and construction methods for them, like sledges, carts, barrows, etc...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: John Candlebury on September 16, 2013, 09:42:10 PM
Yeah, we really do need to be able to drag furniture instead of doing whatever we do now.
And the autodrag/move sounds as a very nice function
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 16, 2013, 09:55:21 PM
I was actually planning on expanding the grab+drag operation to items and furniture too (and get rid of my awful hack in the construction menu), but it turns out to be a bit more complicated than dragging vehicles, go figure.

Need to look into some more draggable/specific vehicles and construction methods for them, like sledges, carts, barrows, etc...

Just reimplement all furniture as a type of vehicle? ;)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 16, 2013, 10:10:09 PM
HAH! And that'd fix the contiguous furniture problem too... (pool tables, benches, beds, etc)

Items are actually easy, Grab->grab what? menu, then grab a pointer to the item.

The main problem with furniture is that it can have "contents" but the linkage is only that they're on the same square, so if you drag around a piece of furniture it will either leave its contents behind, or vacuum up everything as it moves over them.  I believe pushing furniture around currently does this, but it's awkward enough to do that in practice it's not an issue, if the grab were persistent it might be.

And that's why I made shopping carts vehicles, because they already had their own inventory.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on September 16, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
Kewl, I played one amongst the latest of builds - though I rushed, I still need to ask.
What's the deal with carts spawning instead of walls? Were you guys trying to encourage stacks of 'em or something in that venue?
Still, pretty much enjoying the great improvement over more formidable zombies being actually formidable. Arms like trashcans do pummel like trashcans, and three spitters at once are a spell to take special care of. Glad to see that animals tend to migrate, too.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 16, 2013, 10:19:50 PM
Hrm, carts spawning in walls is a bug, they're supposed to just give up if they would end up in a wall.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Darrus Dreadtiger on September 16, 2013, 10:24:01 PM
Huh. That's weird. I started near a city (size six) and it's completely devoid of Zombies...

Well, there is a fungal bloom up close (about 10 tiles away from the town) and I had a run in with the denizens.... hundreds of them... but they can't be all from the city, can they?

Okay, almost completely. There were child zombies in the parks and a horde of zombies left the hotel and did me in, but other than that... ghost town!

EDIT:

...well damn. Who would have known. 0.0 is actually not 0.8. I might have to raise the spawn rate again......

disregard...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 16, 2013, 11:02:54 PM
A curses mac version (so no tiles) of .8 is now available here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/b53u1a99ralpfuh/cataclysmdda-OSX-0.8.zip) until it eventually gets uploaded to the website itself. I'll take a look into possibly compiling a tiles version later, but for now curses is the only option.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: fartbutt on September 16, 2013, 11:58:34 PM
This game has come a long way. Congrats to the devs!

The city size option is great!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: KA101 on September 17, 2013, 12:44:40 AM
Something worrisome I heard: what's the proportion on ice labs?  The original proposal was 50%, and now I'm hearing 100%.  The latter would make a fair amount of otherwise-decent stuff practically inaccessible.

Thanks much.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 17, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
Something worrisome I heard: what's the proportion on ice labs?  The original proposal was 50%, and now I'm hearing 100%.  The latter would make a fair amount of otherwise-decent stuff practically inaccessible.

Thanks much.
It's 50% IIRC.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: KA101 on September 17, 2013, 01:15:39 AM
Something worrisome I heard: what's the proportion on ice labs?  The original proposal was 50%, and now I'm hearing 100%.  The latter would make a fair amount of otherwise-decent stuff practically inaccessible.

Thanks much.
It's 50% IIRC.

OK, thanks.  Came up on a wiki talk page.  Will look into that at some point.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 17, 2013, 01:17:42 AM
...well damn. Who would have known. 0.0 is actually not 0.8. I might have to raise the spawn rate again......
I've heard that there were problems on windows specifically where setting the spawn rate to less then 1 will automatically reduce it to zero. Sadly I can't replicate currently, which makes fixing the bug difficult.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 17, 2013, 01:30:53 AM
Thanks to i2amroy, we have a mac build!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Weyrling on September 17, 2013, 01:42:42 AM
There's mouth encumbrance now, how wonderful.
Being able to drag small vehicles around is pretty useful, I've been dragging motorcycles into alleyways for use as blockades, but they are extremely awkward to move in anything but straight lines, and they occasionally turn at ridiculous angles.

As far as the revival mechanics go, I'd rather see pulping the first resort and have butchering take more time. Also, can a zombie necromancer revive a pulped corpse? If not, maybe they should be able to. This would encourage burning and butchering as more reliable but time consuming methods.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: KA101 on September 17, 2013, 02:14:50 AM
There's mouth encumbrance now, how wonderful.
Being able to drag small vehicles around is pretty useful, I've been dragging motorcycles into alleyways for use as blockades, but they are extremely awkward to move in anything but straight lines, and they occasionally turn at ridiculous angles.

As far as the revival mechanics go, I'd rather see pulping the first resort and have butchering take more time. Also, can a zombie necromancer revive a pulped corpse? If not, maybe they should be able to. This would encourage burning and butchering as more reliable but time consuming methods.

Ugh, enough folks are complaining about corpse-disposal already.  No need to make it worse.  :-/
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 17, 2013, 02:23:52 AM
There's mouth encumbrance now, how wonderful.
Technically there has always been mouth encumbrance effects, it's just that the game didn't actually apply said effects.

Ugh, enough folks are complaining about corpse-disposal already.  No need to make it worse.  :-/
Trust that smashing will be generalize to be as simple as butchery is now (A simple "Smash this Y/N?" prompt will work) before butchering is expanded.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: ilovetherain on September 17, 2013, 08:14:23 AM
the large tileset doesnt have my game window resize to show 12 x 12 tiles, im left staring at something that is more 3 x 6 and any zombies that are farther away than that but closer than 12 x 12 dont show up on my compass radar. not to mention 3 x 7 is just unmanagable. anyone know how i can resize the window? until then ill just use the other tileset.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Newbunkle on September 17, 2013, 10:55:35 AM
Hmm. What's the difference between SDL and GDI? I've no idea what they mean.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: twistboy on September 17, 2013, 11:39:03 AM
Hmm. What's the difference between SDL and GDI? I've no idea what they mean.

In short, SDL == tiles (GDI (ncurses on linux) plays in terminal in pure text)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 17, 2013, 01:51:19 PM
Thanks to i2amroy again, we now have a mac SDL build as well.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: youtoo on September 17, 2013, 02:05:32 PM
i see the comment about russian and chinese translators. any idea how popular the game is over there?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 17, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
I have a problem with the Mac version(the curses one). When I try to launch the cataclysm_launcher, the game don't start, and the terminal tell me that the library didn't load, and the reason is: "Image not found"...
I am doing something wrong?


Ps: I'm not English, so I apologize for any spelling errors
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 17, 2013, 06:35:39 PM
Kemiatan: can you try running it directly from a terminal by navigating to the directory and running "./cataclysm"?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 17, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
well, I'm not very familiar with the terminal, so I have no idea how to do that... can you tell me what i must write in the terminal? thanks
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 17, 2013, 07:02:46 PM
well, I'm not very familiar with the terminal, so I have no idea how to do that... can you tell me what i must write in the terminal? thanks
An easy way to do it would be to download the SDL mac version and copy/paste the run-cataclysm.command file from that into the curses version. Then open up the run-cataclysm.command file (textedit works fine for this) and change "./cataclysm-tiles" to "./cataclysm". Then just double-click the run-cataclysm.command file and it should be the same as running it through the terminal.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 17, 2013, 07:11:53 PM
An easy way to do it would be to download the SDL mac version and copy/paste the run-cataclysm.command file from that into the curses version. Then open up the run-cataclysm.command file (textedit works fine for this) and change "./cataclysm-tiles" to "./cataclysm". Then just double-click the run-cataclysm.command file and it should be the same as running it through the terminal.
not working, it give me the same error...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 17, 2013, 07:15:59 PM
Can you copy-paste everything in the terminal window that pops up when you run it then? Also what version of OS X are you running?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 17, 2013, 07:29:57 PM
(click to show/hide)
And I'm using MacOSX 10.7.5 lion
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 17, 2013, 07:50:06 PM
The problem is it can't find the internationalization library.  Not familiar enough with OSX to know why or how to fix it though.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 17, 2013, 07:58:26 PM
Yeah, I think I might be missing some library somewhere (yet it still compiled). Give me a bit to nail down the problem and I'll post a test version here in a few minutes with any luck.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 17, 2013, 08:16:05 PM
ok I'll wait then, thanks for the help :)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Deon on September 17, 2013, 09:50:34 PM
I've got a letter which says that rewards were distributed and survivor info has been gathered, but I haven't submitted it yet D:. Where can I submit it?

I mean the character name, description and inventory (and what can we pick from?).
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 17, 2013, 09:56:20 PM
Just the "names only" tiers. The custom survivors and houses still have some time left to go.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Catfoodbob on September 17, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Great update, love the new features... but something has been kinda bugging me. does the game "Feel" slower to any of you, or have i just not played in a while.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 17, 2013, 10:53:33 PM
Great update, love the new features... but something has been kinda bugging me. does the game "Feel" slower to any of you, or have i just not played in a while.
Depending on your OS you might be able to get some nice speed improvements by switching version types (Linux generally is faster on curses and Windows on SDL; Tiles is SDL).

@Kemiatan
Try this version (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ehbxycralbhn5n4/Cataclysm-DDA-test.zip) and see if it works with double-clicking on cataclysm-launcher.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 17, 2013, 11:10:21 PM
Quote
@Kemiatan
Try this version (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ehbxycralbhn5n4/Cataclysm-DDA-test.zip) and see if it works with double-clicking on cataclysm-launcher.
Nope, still the same error...

moment like this make me regret having a Mac ;_;
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 18, 2013, 12:55:47 AM
moment like this make me regret having a Mac ;_;
Don't think of it as watching mac's be stupid think of it as watching us develop a good mac build environment and makefile to make sure this never happens again. :P

And another version. (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ehbxycralbhn5n4/Cataclysm-DDA-test.zip) I'm just gonna keep linking in libraries until this thing works. :/
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Catfoodbob on September 18, 2013, 03:02:01 AM
O-o somehow got fungaloid disease without even encountering them o-o
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Telkoth on September 18, 2013, 08:16:40 AM
So, I see theres backwards compatibility for saves, does this include cross platform? So, if I give up on playing it on my Mac, can I copy it to my PC?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 18, 2013, 09:14:33 AM
So, I see theres backwards compatibility for saves, does this include cross platform? So, if I give up on playing it on my Mac, can I copy it to my PC?
It's not so much backwards compatibility for previous saves, but rather "should be backwards compatible from here on". And I'm fairly certain that saves should be cross compatible between platforms from here on out.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 18, 2013, 11:56:30 AM
Don't think of it as watching mac's be stupid think of it as watching us develop a good mac build environment and makefile to make sure this never happens again. :P
Well I could think in that way. Maybe is better :P

Anyway, this version too doesn't work ;_;
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Amra on September 18, 2013, 01:56:37 PM
Hello. Basements enter and exit are broken with new version. You can check it by opening the whole map, teleporting yourself into the basement and then exit it. You will appear outside the house with no enter around.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: FunsizeNinja123 on September 18, 2013, 02:02:21 PM
Hello. Basements enter and exit are broken with new version. You can check it by opening the whole map, teleporting yourself into the basement and then exit it. You will appear outside the house with no enter around.
Did you try < and >? Shift + . and shift + ,
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Amra on September 18, 2013, 02:06:34 PM
Yes. In fact there is no "steps down" point where "steps up" point is underground.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: FunsizeNinja123 on September 18, 2013, 02:21:41 PM
That's... highly unusual.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 18, 2013, 03:03:51 PM
Thanks for reporting this.  This is a minor mapgen bug where the basements of some houses aren't accessable because the mapgen code can't figure out where to put the down stairs.
The stairs aren't broken, they're just missing.
The reason I call it minor is that it has no discernable impact on a regular game.  Effectively that house just doesn't have a basement.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: youtoo on September 18, 2013, 03:52:14 PM
how do you guys decide when the next version is ready for release? I didn't see any indicators that you were ready to make the experimentals into a baseline?
just curious.

btw, great job by the fulltime dev. this is well worth my kickstarter payment.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 18, 2013, 04:24:00 PM
Thanks for the kind words :)

I'm the main driver on releases, so it pretty much comes down to a personal decision.  My plan going forward is to release about once a month, because that's enough time to get in a significant amount of development done.  In this case I delayed the release for quite a while past that because tiles looked like they were "almost ready" for a long time (that's nothing unusual with big features, in fact I'd say it's typical), then we had some tricky bugs with inventory letter assignment that ended up taking a long time to sort out (there are still some issues, but it was BAAD for a few days).  When it's coming up on a month, I go through the issue tracker and make a list of bugs that we really can't release without fixing, this is the list for 0.8:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues?milestone=5&page=1&state=closed
Then once there are no known critical bugs, I start the release process, which is now outlined at:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/master/code_doc/RELEASE_CHECKLIST
If I don't update the changelog as we go, just updating the changelog can take several evenings, because that involves me reading and summarizing over a thousand commits, then writing the release notices, etc.
So that's roughly how it happens.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: asdfzxc on September 18, 2013, 08:35:41 PM
Somebody needs to change the nightly build links on the front page. They should both point to cataclysmdda_0.8.zip.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kaet on September 18, 2013, 11:14:49 PM
I think the new toilet mechanics broke funnels
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Hermitkrab on September 19, 2013, 02:30:01 AM
    "tile_info":
    [
        {
            "height": 32,
            "width": 32
        }
    ],

gfx\DeonTileset\tile_config.json
The tiles that the game uses is changed (ex. toilets sprites instead of walls) when I try to change the tile size to any other number.
It takes forever to try and scout for zombies because the tiles at 32x32 is ridiculously big. I think 16x16 - 22x22 are the most view:tile sized balance. The art can still be appreciated and its nice to see spitters/shockers on screen before they use their ranged attacks on you. Is there a way to make these tiles smaller without glitching out? I'm used to playing with ASCII though, so no rush though guys! Great work with the new update though, love the changes to the crafting, I can't wait to get my forge up and running!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: SKiPPY on September 19, 2013, 03:09:49 AM
I know this is a HUGE thing to ask, but is their going to be a massive over haul in terms of z-levels. For instance, having the apartment tower be  an actual tower. I'm happy with the lower levels, such as basements. Also, nice work with the new features; I love all the new occupations that have been added!
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: phaethon on September 19, 2013, 04:21:50 AM
Don't think of it as watching mac's be stupid think of it as watching us develop a good mac build environment and makefile to make sure this never happens again. :P
Well I could think in that way. Maybe is better :P

Anyway, this version too doesn't work ;_;

The error is for libintl, right?  The easiest workaround would be to install Xcode (free from app store) and then within Xcode, go to Preferences -> Downloads -> Components -> Command Line Tools and install those.  That will give you gcc, glibc, and all the other goodies you are missing.  i2amroy's build will likely work then.


By the way, i2amroy, have you typed "otool -L ./cataclysm-tiles" to see what libraries it is pulling in?  Did you manage to statically pull in SDL and ncurses or are those dependencies?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 19, 2013, 05:38:44 AM
An idea of stats for this release:
Somewhere around 7,500 downloads for windows, 500 for linux, and 300 or so very disappointed mac users.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 19, 2013, 06:21:44 AM
By the way, i2amroy, have you typed "otool -L ./cataclysm-tiles" to see what libraries it is pulling in?  Did you manage to statically pull in SDL and ncurses or are those dependencies?
I have! And both of them report that they are including the libintl libraries, which is why I have absolutely no idea why this isn't working. :/
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HunterAlpha1 on September 19, 2013, 06:54:09 AM
say, if you're going to have invincible shrubs, could you at least rename them "Spinach Plants"?  that way i won't feel so bad about my three ton heavily armoured flatbed truck traveling at 50+ MPH being stopped cold in it's tracks by a plant. 
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Vaylon on September 19, 2013, 10:26:32 AM
I've only just started playing 0.8, and I've already noticed several bugs:
- When targeting monsters with a slingshot, sometimes the farthest monster is targeted first.
- Weapon stuck messages no longer appear. I've had my weapon disappear into monsters several times with no warning.
- I tried to use cannabis and got a message, "You haven't gotten anything to smoke out of," but still got the positive effects as if I had smoked it. (No charges were consumed.)

I understand that the game is in development, but I personally do not enjoy being a bug tester, so I'm going to play 0.7 until the bugs have by and large been worked out.

(Also, I miss clothing with negative encumbrance.)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: John Candlebury on September 19, 2013, 10:57:47 AM
Actually, the first one is not a glitch, the game first targets the nearest enemy and then will continue to aim at the last hit; not mattering if other enemies are nearer
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: youtoo on September 19, 2013, 02:25:52 PM
@kevin: your wife must hate this game...

8300 downloads in a couple of days? That is pretty good.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 19, 2013, 03:24:20 PM
She's kind of peeved if I put off coming to eat dinner because I'm trying to fix a bug or something, but in general it's just what I do with my spare time.  Also it's no different compared to in the past when I would put off coming to dinner because I was finishing a turn in X-com...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: phaethon on September 19, 2013, 04:51:18 PM
By the way, i2amroy, have you typed "otool -L ./cataclysm-tiles" to see what libraries it is pulling in?  Did you manage to statically pull in SDL and ncurses or are those dependencies?
I have! And both of them report that they are including the libintl libraries, which is why I have absolutely no idea why this isn't working. :/

Wait, are you saying that they are listed there?  Anything listed by "otool -L" are dynamically linked libraries, so those libraries have to be present on every system that tries to run the game.

...

I just did some digging.  So the mac version of GCC (the one installed through Xcode) has a bunch of the static linking options gimped.  From this page:https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/qa/qa1393/_index.html, it says:
Quote
There is no way to choose a static library over a corresponding dylib if both libraries are in the same directory without using the -l linker option and absolute paths to each library.

SOOOO, I got it to use static libraries for gettext and SDL.  Mac only has dylibs for ncurses, iconv and the other system libraries.

The non-SDL version will compile for me like this:

make NATIVE=osx RELEASE=1 OSX_MIN=10.6 LDFLAGS=' -L/usr/lib -lncurses -liconv -F/System/Library/Frameworks/ -framework CoreFoundation -framework Cocoa /usr/local/Cellar/gettext/0.18.2/lib/libgettextpo.a /usr/local/Cellar/gettext/0.18.2/lib/libasprintf.a /usr/local/Cellar/gettext/0.18.2/lib/libintl.a ' CXXFLAGS='-I/usr/local/opt/gettext/include'

just change the paths for the different lib*.a files to match what you have.  I'm still working on the SDL version.  For some reason, when I add the SDL*.a libraries, I have to manually add in a bunch of Frameworks for it to work.  I installed SDL through brew, and I'm thinking I need the Framework version.


Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 19, 2013, 06:27:01 PM
The error is for libintl, right?  The easiest workaround would be to install Xcode (free from app store) and then within Xcode, go to Preferences -> Downloads -> Components -> Command Line Tools and install those.  That will give you gcc, glibc, and all the other goodies you are missing.  i2amroy's build will likely work then.
I checked Xcode on the app store... and I can't install it because I don't have macOSX 1.8.4+...

there is still hope for me?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: bubbadoo14 on September 19, 2013, 08:43:28 PM
Awesome job guys! I have been having so much fun with the game! The tiles make the game much more immersive (Still hilarious that the NPC's are flowers.)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Cinghiale on September 19, 2013, 11:09:27 PM
I notice that the ambient number of open issues on github is slowly but surely creeping up. Is that because bugs are proliferating as the game becomes more complicated, or are people simply throwing more ideas onto the heap? Have ya'll considered having focus days where you all dog pile onto one or a few older issues?

https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/134

That one seems cool as hell.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 19, 2013, 11:41:47 PM
Little A, little B, mostly B.
In some cases we're finding really old obscure bugs, and some are more recent regressions.
LOTS of those are ideas and feature requests though.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Cinghiale on September 19, 2013, 11:57:32 PM
Yeah I've been seeing a lot of completely incomprehensible "gut" updates lately. 14000 json files updated in one change FTW

I remember back in good (bad) old days Whales complaining that the game had become burdensome and overwrought and basically so fraught with so many interconnected bugs and inefficiencies that it became a misery to try to fix them, contributing to him moving on to new projects. Do you think that these "systemic" errors and headaches have been resolved or are you guys still planning on uprooting and streamlining whole systems of code down the line?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 20, 2013, 12:24:22 AM
Yeah I've been seeing a lot of completely incomprehensible "gut" updates lately. 14000 json files updated in one change FTW

I remember back in good (bad) old days Whales complaining that the game had become burdensome and overwrought and basically so fraught with so many interconnected bugs and inefficiencies that it became a misery to try to fix them, contributing to him moving on to new projects. Do you think that these "systemic" errors and headaches have been resolved or are you guys still planning on uprooting and streamlining whole systems of code down the line?
We still have plenty of big systems we eventually plan on rewriting, though most often the reason for doing this isn't because of bugs, it's because we have big plans for improving the current systems, plans that often require the removal of old code.

Generally my take on the bigger systemic bugs is that they don't really influence us due to 2 big factors:
1)A lot of those things that can be considered "systemic" are inherent to the way the current system deals with things. Since lots of times the current system doesn't support the things we are looking to add, it's easier just to rip out the whole system and replace it with a new one that not only does the new things we want it to, but clears out a bunch of older bugs as well.
2)There are a a lot of devs working on this (These last 3 months have had almost 50 different devs!). This means that there is practically no dev burnout; if each dev spends a week working hard to replace old, buggy, systems with a new one that works better then that means not only do we replace 50 old systems but each dev still gets to spend 49 weeks coding whatever they want, which means that they are re-energized when it comes time for them to fix something.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Cinghiale on September 20, 2013, 07:11:41 AM
Sounds very cool, I was a little skeptical of the kickstarter wagon train with the initial uncertainties. I guess I was just pessimistic cause for every social/crowdfunded game success story lately there have been some pretty dicey failures. In some cases they have and are still going down in nuclear holocaust flamewars and butthurt tornadoes 

>_> http://www.gamefront.com/mechwarrior-online-forum-ragesplosion/ <_<

If you devs want a lesson on how not to do things, that article there contains a wealth of info. Think of the MWO forums as glass menageries with every goon from SA running through shrieking murder with baseball bats. You think Lazy-Cat is bad? They have, like, 8000 Lazy-Cats, every Lazy-Cat on the internet, all aggregated in 25000 post topics of terror. The mods have resorted to mass exterminating whole legions of posts/topics to try to maintain order. Poor mechwarrior franchise :C

But it looks like Cdda has avoided that fate and has a healthy critical mass. I salute o7
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: ScoSteSal118 on September 20, 2013, 02:16:45 PM
Isn't part of the difference that the Cdda people haven't actually repeatedly engaged in freaky/shady-looking activities whereas the MWO people appear to have done so?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 20, 2013, 02:56:52 PM
I think the one thing that takes the most load off is that we aren't profit seeking, we just want a better game, and have always been focused on that.
Other major contributors:
We had reached "critical mass", with code, developers and users, BEFORE the Kickstarter. (see https://www.ohloh.net/p/cataclysm-dda, see the contributor and commit peaks in May?  That was about when the Kickstarter happened, we were already on this trajectory.)
Clearly defined, achievable goals.  We figured out what the hard parts would be going forward, and targeted them.  Also we were realistic about timeframes etc.
Not a make-or-break decision.  The entire future of the project wasn't hanging in the balance, just some really sweet nice-to-have features.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: youtoo on September 20, 2013, 03:39:42 PM
@cinghiale: if lazycat actually had a halfway decent personality he would be a nice addition to team. it takes alot of effort to be this obnoxious on a passive forum. I would if he actually works in this profession. I work as a DBA and I wouldn't want him on my team (and DBAs have a reputation for being a pain).

@i2amroy: is that the kind of systemic stuff that would take a full time person to cleanup? Though Im a DBA, I have done development. I do understand that some things need blocks of time ,because you have to load up the info into your own RAM and plow through it. 2 hours here or there, then going to work, then having time for spouses makes some heavy duty work really difficult to do part time.

how long is galenevil booked to? End of november?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Newbunkle on September 20, 2013, 05:20:59 PM
Hmm. What's the difference between SDL and GDI? I've no idea what they mean.

In short, SDL == tiles (GDI (ncurses on linux) plays in terminal in pure text)

Many thanks. Sorry, I forgot I even posted the question.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 20, 2013, 09:44:39 PM
@i2amroy: is that the kind of systemic stuff that would take a full time person to cleanup? Though Im a DBA, I have done development. I do understand that some things need blocks of time ,because you have to load up the info into your own RAM and plow through it. 2 hours here or there, then going to work, then having time for spouses makes some heavy duty work really difficult to do part time.
Most of it no, though a lot of them are borderline and would be a lot easier for a full-timer to do. The few that aren't have been mostly targeted with the kickstarter, namely the Z-levels update and getting tile support into the game.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on September 21, 2013, 12:42:51 AM
Well, I loaded the hereby questioned v0.8 in the banks of ye ol' lowRAM Beercan (I decided to call it so, don't ask how) and immediately went hires with curses windoze build. I appreciate the minor bug fixes and some love that had certainly been put into redesigning spawns that appear more attuned to sense. Since gamespeed is now under full control hopefully this will induce the inplementation of some of the more sophisticated features such as the abovementioned Z-levels.
The item management is now actually enjoyable, with a single glitch to be mentioned; the stacked items in the inventory claim a different letter via means of (w)ielding an item from the stack. If there is a restrictment bound to that slot, at least the item that's been picked out should claim the next free letter assignment and not the whole (leftover) stack.

And thanx for all the bubblegum! :-P
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 21, 2013, 05:51:04 PM
Sorry for my impatience... but there is still hope for my problem, or I can't do nothing about it?

If not, thanks anyway for trying
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kaet on September 21, 2013, 09:34:24 PM
SirHoder mentioned that the reason his cars are big blue blobs of unidentifiable car-like things is because theres not tile support for all the car parts yet.
Any chance that could be added any time soon?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 21, 2013, 11:05:45 PM
Sorry for my impatience... but there is still hope for my problem, or I can't do nothing about it?

If not, thanks anyway for trying
I don't think you even need the full Xcode package (and if you do there should be a compatible version). I've posted a little bit more in-depth instructions on how to compile here (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=3292.msg48283#msg48283), should you decide that you can't wait for us to mange to get this working and want to compile your own version.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 21, 2013, 11:20:58 PM
I don't think you even need the full Xcode package (and if you do there should be a compatible version). I've posted a little bit more in-depth instructions on how to compile here (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=3292.msg48283#msg48283), should you decide that you can't wait for us to mange to get this working and want to compile your own version.
Well, for now I will try to compile myself the game, though I failed every single time I tried before (but I think it was because I haven't downloaded the "command line tools").

Anyway, thanks for the help :)

Edit: well, my mac hate me... I can't compile, because I can't write my password in the terminal when it ask me.... ;_;
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 22, 2013, 12:19:05 AM
Just type in your password like normal and hit enter. Most higher level computer stuff doesn't show the * or whatever when you are typing in a password as an additional level of security, but if you type it in and hit enter it will work just like normal.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kemiatan on September 22, 2013, 12:24:19 AM
Just type in your password like normal and hit enter. Most higher level computer stuff doesn't show the * or whatever when you are typing in a password as an additional level of security, but if you type it in and hit enter it will work just like normal.
oh... well, thanks. again.

this resolve all my problems

Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: dgroves on September 22, 2013, 09:46:07 AM
OSX: I have compiled v 0.8 into a disk image, drag to Applications folder, double click and run; tiles by default (ascii optional). Get it at:  http://goo.gl/KYnqTj

Let me know if you like it, hate it or have issues with it. :-)

Dennis Groves
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on September 22, 2013, 10:29:39 AM
So, I was trying again to de-make the tileset using Deon as the basis:

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catademake.gif)

As you see there are issues for example with walls, since the tileset doesn't have specific tiles for corners. Similar issues when the tile contains object, or even the look cursor.

It would be much better if the game allowed to actually load two different fonts for UI and for gameview.

Work in progress here: http://www.cesspit.net/misc/10x10.zip (dump into gfx/DeonTileset obviously it overwrites it)

EDIT: I managed to fix the wall issue.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on September 22, 2013, 07:44:17 PM
Can someone explain me what "bg" is in the tilething?

And why the hell tiles are not displaying seats at all? They seem to ignore the tile and just draw the frame instead.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: JackBox on September 22, 2013, 09:30:16 PM
Quote
Let me know if you like it, hate it or have issues with it. :-)

Dennis Groves

Hey Dennis,

Thanks for your efford on bringing 0.8 to the Mac! Sadly  it is not running on 10.6. The .app wont start. No errror message at all. Can you try to bring up a terminal based ASCII version?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Zireael on September 23, 2013, 08:27:17 AM
Can someone explain me what "bg" is in the tilething?

And why the hell tiles are not displaying seats at all? They seem to ignore the tile and just draw the frame instead.

This is the same in tiles and in ASCII. Just the way the game is set up.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on September 23, 2013, 01:46:21 PM
Can someone explain me what "bg" is in the tilething?

And why the hell tiles are not displaying seats at all? They seem to ignore the tile and just draw the frame instead.

This is the same in tiles and in ASCII. Just the way the game is set up.

Nope, I can't make the tile behave like ASCII would, and it probably depends on something hardcoded, OR the way tile_config.json is set up. So I need someone to explain me what I have to change.

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catacar1.gif)

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catacar2.gif)

The only parts that I can properly rebind are the wheels and doors (the + sign), everything else behaves differently. For example the tile version uses the same grey block on most of the car, while ASCII shows windscreens, seats, wheel and so on, using different symbols. I have assigned different tiles to them, but somewhat the gray "frame" takes priority. For example

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/catadesc.gif)

This is on the same slot. On ASCII, the "windshield" is actually shown, on tile you instead see the "frame". Same for the red "#" seats, they are never shown in tile mode even if they are set-up, because it draws instead the frame on the same cell. So there must be something somewhere that tells the game what to draw when there's more than just one thing.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 23, 2013, 06:54:40 PM
Just did a quick dive through the code for drawing vehicle parts, both Tiles and ASCII, and they look functionally the same. Just one draws a symbol while the other draws a tile instead. I am really not sure what the issue is here, but I aim to find out soon. I'll do some tests and hopefully will have an answer quickly >.<
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on September 23, 2013, 07:05:18 PM
If it can help I found some workaround to properly draw the seats in vehicles. It's "vp_frame_v2". It seems to handle the same tiles where seats would go, but it shouldn't be the actual correct one (since vp_frame_v2 should be once again just the frame).

With windshields it's actually impossible, both Deon and Hoder don't seem to be able to draw windshields that in the tile list should be: vp_window. While they are shown on every vehicle with ASCII.

EDIT: There's also another possible issue. When there's something in a cell, in ASCII you see the background colored blue. For example there's a "sick" in "shallow water", in ASCII I see the shallow water symbol, and the background colored blue to show something is there. In tile mode instead the stick "hides" the shallow water symbol, as if it takes priority.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GalenEvil on September 23, 2013, 07:20:36 PM
I may need to add in a "grab all parts from x,y and prioritize" function to get it working. Wish we had better layering mechanics for vehicles to say "seat-x" is atop "frame-y", when I could just grab the top of the stack and be happy, or draw from the bottom up... alsjdljs rawr...
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Chrysophrase on September 23, 2013, 09:11:10 PM
So, I was trying again to de-make the tileset using Deon as the basis:

As you see there are issues for example with walls, since the tileset doesn't have specific tiles for corners. Similar issues when the tile contains object, or even the look cursor.

It would be much better if the game allowed to actually load two different fonts for UI and for gameview.

Work in progress here: http://www.cesspit.net/misc/10x10.zip (dump into gfx/DeonTileset obviously it overwrites it)

EDIT: I managed to fix the wall issue.

I love this approach,  I can still see just as far as with curses,  but specific tiles are 'easier' to distinguish.  Also... square tiles.  It's awesome.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on September 24, 2013, 09:48:04 AM
Oh, and another thing I wanted to rant about:

a few versions back I found a working vehicle, but I was disappointed by the collision system. Imho, it's not very realistic, and so way too immersion breaking, that one can easily drive right through buildings without suffering much damage. This stuff should at least use some basic damage model that considers the frame resistance and speed, and then make also a check against the stuff you're colliding with. A crash with a car against a wall could take down the wall, but the car would likely explode or at least not move ever again.

Or at least cars that aren't specifically engineered to tear down things, and even in that case speed should be severely affected.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on September 24, 2013, 11:49:19 AM
Uff, this is annoying.

Since I saw some work being done on the tiles in the source that could have helped fixing things in my own tiles, I then tried to compile this thing myself.

And obviously it doesn't work. The makefile mentions:
# handle #include "SDL/SDL.h" and "SDL.h"

Nope. It doesn't work. I had to relocate all the .h files so that the path was correct. Then I managed to compile it, but I wonder if it works since I have no idea what kinds of version it needs for the bunch of libraries it depends on, like libpng, freetype and so on.

Anyway, it compiled, but now it demands a bunch of .dlls. Like SDL_image.dll

So the question: Why the F it can't link statically all that mess? The package you distribute doesn't need any .dll littering the directory, so why the makefile isn't ALREADY SET UP to work like the thing you actually distribute? And what I need to edit to make it behave like that?

And yes, I moved all the .dlls into the game dir so that I could run and... yes. It opens, waits a while, then it closes without any message. FAIL.

It's never a smooth ride.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on September 24, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
More:
I tried to download this: http://ci.narc.ro/job/Cataclysm-Win32-SDL/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/cataclysmdda-0.8.zip

And tile mode is screwed with vehicles. They show up as a bunch of #### (unknown) currently. So either the code needs fixing, or the tiles.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 24, 2013, 04:07:59 PM
Oh, and another thing I wanted to rant about:

a few versions back I found a working vehicle, but I was disappointed by the collision system. Imho, it's not very realistic, and so way too immersion breaking, that one can easily drive right through buildings without suffering much damage. This stuff should at least use some basic damage model that considers the frame resistance and speed, and then make also a check against the stuff you're colliding with. A crash with a car against a wall could take down the wall, but the car would likely explode or at least not move ever again.

Or at least cars that aren't specifically engineered to tear down things, and even in that case speed should be severely affected.
If you've noticed .8 already has come with a rather large vehicle update. Don't try to drive through buildings now, or at least not in any car you plan to keep using. At this point most vehicle collision bugs are strange quirks of the old system that are just now coming to light due to us replacing a chunk of the system with something that is realistic and not filled with said bugs. (Take the shrubs bug, it's due to some old code that automatically stopped the car under certain conditions; it's just that you never noticed it's effects really before because shrubs didn't really do any damage to your vehicle.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: youtoo on September 24, 2013, 11:00:30 PM
has any work been started on z-levels? i read the developer diary. I dont see it mentioned. Is that on tap for after the mod manager? Or are other people working on it? Not sure if certain things have to be cleaned up first before that can start.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: CIB on September 24, 2013, 11:13:17 PM
z-levels will likely come later.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: youtoo on September 24, 2013, 11:36:19 PM
thanks guys. how about adding a link to the facebook page on the front page? we have twitter there already.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Treah on September 26, 2013, 12:54:45 PM
i2amroy;

The problem with the mac version of the game I believe is that you have dynamically linked in the libintl.8.dylib instead of statically linking it to the binary. This library is not present on Mac systems ( even when you install xcode and command line tools ) and thus will fail to be found when the game is run. The only reference to the library that I could find was from macports, and asking users to install that just to run a single program is a bit overkill IMHO. So you will either have to distribute a copy of the library with the game and get the compile to dynamically link to it in the game directory ( that's ugly and hackish IMHO) Or just statically build the lib into the binary.  Ill see if I can give compiling it from scratch a go as I have a mac to work on that's running the latest version of the OS. However I have not had good luck in the past getting it compiled before.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: youtoo on September 26, 2013, 04:35:47 PM
by real physicals for cars? what physics engine did you use? is it some physics code from the web? not sure how this works.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 26, 2013, 08:04:26 PM
i2amroy;

The problem with the mac version of the game I believe is that you have dynamically linked in the libintl.8.dylib instead of statically linking it to the binary. This library is not present on Mac systems ( even when you install xcode and command line tools ) and thus will fail to be found when the game is run. The only reference to the library that I could find was from macports, and asking users to install that just to run a single program is a bit overkill IMHO. So you will either have to distribute a copy of the library with the game and get the compile to dynamically link to it in the game directory ( that's ugly and hackish IMHO) Or just statically build the lib into the binary.  Ill see if I can give compiling it from scratch a go as I have a mac to work on that's running the latest version of the OS. However I have not had good luck in the past getting it compiled before.

Feel free. Apple has pretty much gone out of their way to make static linking all but impossible in Xcode, which is why we are having so many problems. :/ If you manage to get a version working without needing dynamic library linking feel free to post it here and we can upload it. This goes double for the SDL version, which takes even more jumping through hoops to get it to work.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 26, 2013, 08:10:52 PM
youtoo: It's just a simple parameterized elastic collision model, the vehicles are still treated as basically point masses, and we ignore angular momentum.  But it's more accurate than the totally ad-hoc thing we had before.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: cheeseyb0b on September 26, 2013, 08:33:38 PM
I just started playing the new version and I've noticed a bug. Attacking something with a rock-in-a-sock shows the debug message "Tried to get invalid material: cloth" then crashes the game.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on September 26, 2013, 08:41:01 PM
I just started playing the new version and I've noticed a bug. Attacking something with a rock-in-a-sock shows the debug message "Tried to get invalid material: cloth" then crashes the game.
It's already known and fixed in the experimental.

Thanks for reporting all the same, though you might want to consider using the Garage forum in the future for bug reports.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: An0n3 on September 27, 2013, 07:50:34 PM
Rock-in-a-sock?

Does the game feature madballs?
That is, a cue ball in the bottom of a sock.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on September 29, 2013, 12:03:55 PM
With the exception of madball not being in an actual sock (think of it - what can you find instead in a pool bar?)

But get this, just an idea:
Tools:
Open Flame
Tongs
Hammer
Materials:
Nails x3 (though, these should be actual building nails, but whatevah)
Chunk of Steel
Chain
Heavy Stick or Pool Cue
Cue Ball x3

Cut the stick in half, shape the steel onto an end; drive searing-hot-rod nails through cue balls, shape ends and connect to sturdy piece of wood&steel with three chain pieces. Smash / Grapple then Stun.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Mrn on September 29, 2013, 02:05:27 PM
Hi, I have a tendency to use "list items" (V) quite a lot in the game, but it didn't work for me in the tiles version. Trail line wasn't drawn and there was no way to know where are the items listed. I tried both the 0.8 and Git version to no avail and was somewhat surprised no one complained about it (I'm using Linux, if it's relevant), so I decided to try and fix it myself.

My solution is probably suboptimal, since I don't know the code-base at all, but here is what I did:
Code: [Select]
diff --git a/game.cpp b/game.cpp
index 10f2d2f..f2b72d2 100644
--- a/game.cpp
+++ b/game.cpp
@@ -6851,14 +6851,9 @@ void game::draw_trail_to_square(int x, int y)
     draw_ter();
 
     //Draw trail
-    point center = point(u.posx + u.view_offset_x, u.posy + u.view_offset_y);
     std::vector<point> vPoint = line_to(u.posx, u.posy, u.posx + x, u.posy + y, 0);
 
-    for (int i = 1; i < vPoint.size(); i++)
-    {
-        m.drawsq(w_terrain, u, vPoint[i-1].x, vPoint[i-1].y, true, true, center.x, center.y);
-    }
-
+    draw_line(x, y, vPoint);
     mvwputch(w_terrain, vPoint[vPoint.size()-1].y + VIEWY - u.posy - u.view_offset_y,
                         vPoint[vPoint.size()-1].x + VIEWX - u.posx - u.view_offset_x, c_white, 'X');

It works and is finally playable for me. I also checked both the curses version and SDL version with tiles turned off and it doesn't seem I've broken anything. Is this correct? Or should the original code work as well?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kaet on October 06, 2013, 03:27:53 AM
Any update on the vehicle tileset situation? Able to make not just frames yet?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on October 06, 2013, 08:23:17 PM
Any update on the vehicle tileset situation? Able to make not just frames yet?
We don't handle anything for tile sets other then support, and I'm pretty sure that this problem is just that the tile set owners haven't gotten around to making vehicle tiles yet for their respective tilesets. You might want to consider posting in their threads if you want an estimated time.

(If I'm wrong forgive me, I don't really mess with tilesets so I'm not 100% positive on how they work).
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kaet on October 07, 2013, 09:40:43 AM
Any update on the vehicle tileset situation? Able to make not just frames yet?
We don't handle anything for tile sets other then support, and I'm pretty sure that this problem is just that the tile set owners haven't gotten around to making vehicle tiles yet for their respective tilesets. You might want to consider posting in their threads if you want an estimated time.

(If I'm wrong forgive me, I don't really mess with tilesets so I'm not 100% positive on how they work).

Unfortunately you're wrong there. All the tilesets have been sort of half finished because vehicle frames are shown on top of everything else on the vehicle, so all the cars look like weird unidentifiable heaps that you can't tell back to front from.
I'm guessing the tileset makers have maybe not voiced their problems enough if nothing has been done to fix it.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GalenEvil on October 07, 2013, 10:29:48 AM
I'm really not sure what the problem is to be honest. I will look at it again and see if I can get it working properly. The code is looks functionally the same for both the GDI and Tiles vehicle drawing. I bet I botched something though with how it picks the tile >.<
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: xLemor on October 08, 2013, 12:58:23 AM
Maybe a priority on what tile to display on top would work. I dont know if it can be done tho.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on October 08, 2013, 10:44:34 AM
Unfortunately you're wrong there. All the tilesets have been sort of half finished because vehicle frames are shown on top of everything else on the vehicle, so all the cars look like weird unidentifiable heaps that you can't tell back to front from.
I'm guessing the tileset makers have maybe not voiced their problems enough if nothing has been done to fix it.

I've opened bugs about this and other things.

Both tiles and standard SDL need a lot more work but it seems pretty low on the priority list of devs.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on October 08, 2013, 04:10:28 PM
Both tiles and standard SDL need a lot more work but it seems pretty low on the priority list of devs.
Mainly because GalenEvil is the main one who understands and handles that code, and he's busy doing other kickstarter work.

(I know that personally I don't use tiles at all [they don't work on Cygwin] so I won't be doing any tiles development/bugfixes.)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Fox on October 08, 2013, 10:33:24 PM
Are we supposed to get sound support at some point?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: i2amroy on October 08, 2013, 11:18:39 PM
Well right now there isn't anything to play for music. Sound support has been mentioned a few times, but it's not exactly on the priority list (especially since most rougelikes are silent anyways). If anyone wants to code it up and make a PR it would probably go in though.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on October 09, 2013, 02:14:03 AM
MIDI trax are on the way, you only need to be patient for a little while. :-)
Even though I'm onto the whole "everything from nothing" all by myself, I didn't forget nor did I brake the promise with (heart-breaking) abandonment of prior work. I just happen to like flawless things that tend to move worlds. :-)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Wayfarer on October 20, 2013, 05:20:16 AM
Popping back to look in at ye olde CDDA...and oh lookie, a new version!

Just want to say it's pretty awesome.  Love the new things I've played with so far.  I'm using the SDL tiles version, it's really nice.  I can play without tiles, I just much prefer it WITH tiles.  So it's great.

Had a look at the advanced inventory management, and I pretty much came on right now to say how awesome that is.  Perhaps one of the best features.  I know it's been in for a while, but even so.

Great bloody work you lot!

EDIT:  I wondered what the blue rectangle between Day and Focus was....and I wondered what the time was....then found a watch.  Figured that without the watch, that little rectangle was a representation of where the sun was!!  Hooooly shiiiiieeet.  Such a cool little immersion type feature :)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: HRose on October 22, 2013, 09:11:44 AM
Vehicles are for the most part fixed in tile mode with the latest experimental SDL build.

(http://cesspit.net/misc/catveh.gif)

If someone wants to test my WIP fake-ASCII tileset it's always here: http://cesspit.net/misc/10x10.zip

I update it from time to time.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 22, 2013, 02:27:05 PM
Well right now there isn't anything to play for music. Sound support has been mentioned a few times, but it's not exactly on the priority list (especially since most rougelikes are silent anyways). If anyone wants to code it up and make a PR it would probably go in though.

Actually, you might remember the music thread - the guy who had the most support has written us an entire soundtrack, and it really is just waiting on sound support to be added.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on October 22, 2013, 11:23:07 PM
Not only one soundtrack; I'm patiently exploring the indie scene for authors, studying their approaches and improving the current songs that are lined up for the first pick (the first two-by-four, as mentioned before). I saw this as the only way, since the game was, at one instance of the time, greatly improving in every aspect; the actual tunes should supply the dynamic to drive player's imagination through different game phases. As the dev team has tasks lined up, this will also be there as I promised, eventually.
Again, my inspiration comes from free tools for open sourced games - and any real improvement will be appreciated as far as the embedded technologies and digital formats go. If there would ever be anything besides the 24 tracks I've planned myself, I see no problem supplying them for future gamers, in any mod there can be.

edit:
The Informer bit, for those not patient yet: TMPDT (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=1483.msg44010#msg44010)
Start reading from above, PM and email me for ideas.
The topic commited to the third batch (tracks 17-24) would be more interesting (hopefully not a one-man act :-) and interactive for the board members.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Binky on October 23, 2013, 07:15:35 PM
Just to confirm, the music will be a separate download right? I know it probably wouldn't take up much space, but I (and a few other Cata players I know) are currently stuck using mobile internet and I know others just don't want sound, so an expanding file size would be annoying. It'd be great to have the music as a mod (and I can't wait to see what's been designed) but just as a separate download.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 23, 2013, 07:47:33 PM
I think the goal is to have a Resourceful and Resourceless download - for those with crappy internet connections, you'd download the base game and it wouldn't come with music or tiles, but you could download them separately as desired and just drop them into place. For most people, you just download the full version and switch between the various options locally as it strikes your fancy, with everything already plugged in.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 23, 2013, 08:10:21 PM
*kevingranade pokes at the SDL_mixer API with a stick.
Huh, that's not as bad as I thought....
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: John Candlebury on October 23, 2013, 08:33:25 PM
While we discuss music i ll drop this jewel i found here

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/551157

That feeling of loneliness and hopelessness

This one is perhaps to gamey but is awesome also http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/548279
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Binky on October 23, 2013, 09:21:24 PM
I think the goal is to have a Resourceful and Resourceless download - for those with crappy internet connections, you'd download the base game and it wouldn't come with music or tiles, but you could download them separately as desired and just drop them into place. For most people, you just download the full version and switch between the various options locally as it strikes your fancy, with everything already plugged in.

That sounds great, I just despise when things go from a 2mb to a 30mb download for resources you just don't *need* to play. Will this be for the experimental's as well? Cata dev builds seem to have become increasingly stable (I imagine it's from a lot of hard work recoding messy bits) so it'd be a shame if we couldn't get those resourceless as well.

As a side note however, having them as a plugin/mod (even an all in one 'official resource' mod) might make it easier rather than having lots of different 'full' versions? Just a thought.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on October 23, 2013, 10:21:17 PM
The SFX could get large enough but that's not the case with midi compositions. :-)
As for support and custom user picks, players should be able to enjoy mpeg and browse the resource folder in-game.
Again, ideas folder open for the enthusiastic bunch: mailto (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?action=emailuser;sa=email;msg=55683).
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 23, 2013, 10:23:48 PM
I think for releases we'll have:
"game + media" archives for each build.
"game only" archives for each build.
Official release media archive.
For experimental builds they will almost certainly just be the game itself, we probably aren't putting audio media into github anyway.
We might do periodic media releases if we e.g. find a new song or add some more sounds to the media pack.
We're fairly unlikely to do a curses or wincurses release that includes audio, since we're probably going to use SDL for audio, which might just be a step to far for number of build targets.

Ninja'ed by vultures: Yea, the media directory is just going to be a directory with a bunch of sound files in it, maybe with some json attaching metadata to different files.  You should also be able to drop in your own sounds.  SDL_mixer supports a pretty wide variety of formats, so it's pretty much drop in and play.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on October 23, 2013, 11:12:55 PM
Now for that kung fu kick, there are a lot of media libraries - but you might wanna take a look at cncs232.dll (MMF 1.5 or above) for it's a way to bring a/v content to Windows games. Platformers and indie platformers such as SMW use it frequently.
note: The library and the consequent ones are free (and required to run certain games) but the developer tool isn't. It's an alternative when you're trying to get things done without SDL 1.2 and 2.0, but it's also more than a directX mixer.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 31, 2013, 03:07:08 PM
Windows-only is a dealbreaker, as is non-open source developer tool requirements.
It needs to be cross-platform and open source for me to even consider it, I'm fairly sure SDL is the best option in that direction, even more so since we're already integrated with SDL.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: jcannon98188 on October 31, 2013, 05:22:45 PM
Another option for media is to do it how soundsense in dwarf fortress handles their download. you could have a downloader exe with the game to download the optional media. That way you guys don't have to have multiple versions of the game available, and we could just decide if we want the download individually or not.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 31, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
That's actually a far more complicated solution :P
Providing multiple versions is simple and cleap.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on November 01, 2013, 03:42:56 AM
Quote
Windows-only is a dealbreaker, as is non-open source developer tool requirements. *SNIP*
Actually, I was looking for some enhancers to the chiptune wisdom online when it popped up. It seemed to me that most of the indie/rl projects used 'complementary' and so to say 'vanilla' solutions. I don't glorify or pity this or that, it's just that some less popular games make use of the fact that there are plugins out there. I'm pretty certain the recent one I posted about was available in the VB format.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on November 15, 2013, 09:08:01 PM
*kevingranade pokes at the SDL_mixer API with a stick.
Huh, that's not as bad as I thought....

Actually about the post you made about SDL API only, but yet...
Regarding this, I did some research on my own behalf. If there's no doubt to what port, interrupt and handler for memory access are, the nature of the Windows XP (ver 5+) is to parse everything to the Primary Device Driver. The utility port therefore is the driver, mostly WHQ certified, which is in most cases the only one. However, XP can have multiple drivers installed and running for the same piece of (physical) hardware, but not for the exact device they represent. This way some aux input could be digitally outputted in a stand-alone manner, whilst your analog output is using the exact hardware the driver's aimed for. Altough it's only a mapper of a sort, it still prevents from mishaps if there's, say, an application that utilizes the installed hardware to the full extent, such as a studio port of a recording utility, and a simple audio player and exporter with software mixing; your common audio player software. Now for the "research" part:
Example_1: An application with suitable background music and sound effects running over Media Player. This is when the native mixer pokes the sound card for resources and capabilities, and mixes them to the same output if available (that's 99.9% of the time). Works as long as the OS can assign port maps without coliding with reserved resources - so it's full-proof most of the time, as far as the driver's concerned.
Example_2: A piece of software that's written so to use another, inbound API. This works through more than one IRQ (interrupt request) address and handles virtual devices on both levels - frontend and process. The "depth" of the code should render the sound card driver usable or unusable to other apps; a standard, enterprise suite such as Cubase should leave the default mapping to the system so you can exercise some basic forms of sound rendering, no matter what the main utility (here Cubase) figures are at the moment. A "savage" sound processing app may reserve all the resources from the driver but not the driver itself (a pro really) so no rendering happens or there's a warning message at most.
Example_3 XP has certain extensions to the Windows core, such as CMD for some basic DOS support. On the DOS end, sound needs to be initialized regardless of the mapping in the AUTOEXEC or CONFIG native scripts. For more than a few games this is a issue resolved in a suitable way that represents a stand-alone mixer utility that attempts to reserve resources based on the chosen driver, and parse everything to the main app in the way its code requires. Since DOS and Windows cores are very different on this issue, the main OS asks for the primary driver on those specific ports - if there's no 100% DOS EMU driver installed (it's not there in most WHQ cases, DOS is considered obsolete). The main problem here lies with reserving those resources, because they aren't discarded with Windows XP and are captured as long as the DOS app runs in the background. The consequences could be dire even with the different addresses usage for both Core and the Extension, and the loop for sound rendering may "lock" the sound card, or the most of its part. However, this is only the worst scenario - in majority of the cases only the sound init does the mentioned lock, so if you initialize the sound card with some software that points to the "Media Player" mixer (e.g. Winamp) and run the DOS app at pretty much the same time, you get a result based on priorities; preset or the default setting having the upper hand, so Winamp with its internal error handling resolves the issue - and the background CMD line app is freezed by the Windows core. My impression with the main Mixer app is that of a system driver that doesn't have a way of handling exceptions, but the Primary Driver has some discretion over this.

You get the picture with the above mentioned examples - in most cases there is no alternate choice for the Primary Driver. It defines the versatility of the hardware and based on that sends information to the sound mixer system driver. If you engage in forcing a third-party driver whereas the Primary one stands it is possible that the mixer won't accept input, altough a mixer with the app itself can stand in between your code and the actions that the Primary Driver parses to the system mixer.
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on November 15, 2013, 09:18:11 PM
I'm not getting your point, are you saying I should manually interface with the windows native audio API?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on November 15, 2013, 09:32:51 PM
If the opinion on the SDL only builds in the future still matters, then yes - there are no outstanding issues with porting an application to the Primary Driver. Otherwise, I was just revisiting some of the standard error states WinXP+ systems have streaming genuine, virtual and hybrid variants of mixer/reproducing ports.
I have a few hybrid drivers on my PC so consider it a stable ground for those proofs. :-)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Narc on November 15, 2013, 10:44:20 PM
Uh, SDL_mixer probably just calls out to the native Windows drivers under Windows. And probably calls out to either ALSA or Pulse on Linux. Why would one want to have a hackish implementation that works on only one platform when you can write to the API that abstracts that stuff away?
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: Kevin Granade on November 16, 2013, 12:07:48 AM
In short, my opinion is that the SDL_mixer author probably knows more about this stuff than all of us put together ;)
Title: Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
Post by: vultures on November 16, 2013, 10:22:06 AM
Quote from: self
If the opinion on the SDL only builds in the future still matters, ...
The XP-discussing post was merely an opinion, and to forward one previous thought that seemed to be in the air. SDL team was brilliant and the package prooved to be exactly what the indie community needed -- it's that there are 4kb demos out there that make use of the native mixer and default driver with no conflicts whatsoever.