Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - Official Forums

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead => The Bunker - Gameplay, Tactics, and General Discussion => Topic started by: Ian Strachan on October 14, 2013, 08:27:29 PM

Title: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on October 14, 2013, 08:27:29 PM
I wasn't sure about making a thread here, but not everyone on the forums follows the Github repository, so I figured it'd be about time to give the official lowdown on the new system.

Here it is, in four easy steps:


Additionally, the various types of plating were changed so they now take up a square and block movement through it (because they're big sheets of plating, and won't do you much good if zombies can just walk past them). Think of them as being like transparent boards, but tougher.

(EDIT: Armor has since been changed; it has its own location and does not block movement, and can be placed on any square that doesn't already have armor. Quarterpanels have been added to fill the 'transparent board' niche.)

It's worth noting that all of the old standard vehicle configurations are allowed under the new system if extra frames are added to squares that didn't have them before. If you load a save from before the change into the new system, the game will automatically add extra frames for you.

All you have to worry about now is that you must remember to start each square with a frame. Many more combinations of parts have been permitted by this, for instance, having a board over a wheel. Feel free to experiment!
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 14, 2013, 09:44:45 PM
Yea, a forum post for new major features is a good idea, should be doing that more actually.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Soviet Troopa on October 14, 2013, 10:07:49 PM
Loved the post, thank you so much for doing this. really helped out
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 15, 2013, 09:19:01 PM
I've been asked, and thought I'd pass the question along in case anyone might be aware: Why is plating transparent?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: trusty_patches on October 15, 2013, 09:33:07 PM
Because it got holes in it, silly.
And you can stick your gun through this holes and fire at Z's and other wildlife.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 15, 2013, 09:43:49 PM
That doesn't sound like terrible good armor plating, then.

How significant is the defense bonus granted? Might it be worth it to have more than one type of armor installed - weaker and less effective "barred" and then the more effective but sight-blocking "plated"?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: trusty_patches on October 15, 2013, 09:49:35 PM
That doesn't sound like terrible good armor plating, then.

How significant is the defense bonus granted? Might it be worth it to have more than one type of armor installed - weaker and less effective "barred" and then the more effective but sight-blocking "plated"?
I don't want to sound like a dick, but you should research it a little bit more. These holes are actually just a slits which don't decrease defensive capability of armor.
However, they do block your sight but not very much and you are able to see through it.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 15, 2013, 10:24:27 PM
None of that seems like a particularly good justification for them working the way they do instead of in another way. I'm not even sure what you want me to "research", since there's nothing actually research-worthy that's been brought up yet. They currently are completely transparent and provide just as much visibility as windows, while providing protection to the occupant. And it means it's actually effectively impossible to block LOS for those who wish to (for example) not get shot at by spitters and shockers and their own turrets while driving through their armor plating.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Blaze on October 16, 2013, 02:03:26 AM
Well...

You could make boards of all 3; so superalloy, hard, and spiked plating have their own opaque versions just like regular boards do. Then reduce the armor's durability slightly to compensate for the extra vision. Would be easier than creating a new mechanic for them.

It would kinda clutter the install menu though. And transparent armor kinda negates the use of windshields completely.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Miloch on October 16, 2013, 02:14:19 AM
The kind of slit you are talking about would only allow visions from the tile right next to said block and would not be very suited to driving as it would severely limit driving.  Tankers and other armored vehicle drivers use a complex set of mirrors so they don't have to be exposed to fire and this is still very limiting on their vision.  There doesn't exist a simple easy solution to this answer.  The closest one would probably be cameras but even those don't work exactly right.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on October 16, 2013, 04:22:00 AM
Official reason: The old plating was transparent.

Also, it would make driving the military truck impossible, because its entire front is covered in armor plating.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 16, 2013, 06:15:33 AM
... yeah, I guess that's a good point. Hoods could be armor plated, but we don't have any logic about seeing OVER armor plating. So really, armor plating is more akin to steel bumpers than anything else.

Huh. Interesting dilemma.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: EkarusRyndren on October 16, 2013, 06:18:36 AM
... yeah, I guess that's a good point. Hoods could be armor plated, but we don't have any logic about seeing OVER armor plating. So really, armor plating is more akin to steel bumpers than anything else.

Huh. Interesting dilemma.

Not to be a pain but what was wrong with the old system as far as board VS hood is concerned? EG A Frame, Board, then Armor, everything under armor is protected, board blocks LoS while Frame <parts> armor is "hood" but doesn't block LoS and still provides armor?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Miloch on October 16, 2013, 06:26:50 AM
I say just take back the section where plating blocks movement and we lose the issue.  Of course the armored car will have to be modified to use boards.  I'm fine with that anyway.  Also, the armored car shouldn't have M249's on it.  It's not a HUMVEE!  HUMVEEs only have one machinegun on them. :P
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Iosyn on October 16, 2013, 03:26:20 PM
Actually it's modular. Hummers can also mount TOW missiles. (wire-guided anti-tank missiles.) :P

But one thing: Can you stick a wheel somewhere with no frame? o0
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 16, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
I always took armor to be "armor whatever is there", so it should block neither sight nor movement*, whatever the underlying component is should determine whether sight or movement are blocked.  The excption being windhields, they should need special measures to preserve transparency when armored.

No, you can't install wheels in a space without a frame anymore.

*I have no idea if it actually works this way.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: EkarusRyndren on October 16, 2013, 05:21:15 PM
I always took armor to be "armor whatever is there", so it should block neither sight nor movement*, whatever the underlying component is should determine whether sight or movement are blocked.  The excption being windhields, they should need special measures to preserve transparency when armored.

No, you can't install wheels in a space without a frame anymore.

*I have no idea if it actually works this way.

In the previous builds that's pretty much the way it worked (I think) with a few exceptions on things that wouldn't be easily armored without causing issues with the component (Windows, Solar panels, etc) Personally I liked it when it worked this way, now I have to choose between armoring my vehicle had being 'hidden' in the back while trying to wait out the daylight... Though I don't need glass for windows anymore, which makes my life a lot easier XD
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 16, 2013, 06:04:36 PM
Yeah, either it needs to block sight, or it needs to NOT block movement.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on October 16, 2013, 06:27:28 PM
Plating was changed to block movement and take up space like most other parts as a simpler alternative to the old system - parts were randomly flagged "NO_REINFORCE" (without much thought -  you could reinforce a seat, but not a kitchen unit) and you had no way to know this except trial and error (or reading the json files).

It also didn't work, because while you couldn't install plating over a NO_REINFORCE part, you could put the part over the plating and that was allowed. Putting armor in its own slot would necessitate the return of the NO_REINFORCE flag.

An armored bumper is a more reasonable way to look at it, particularly since there are flavors like spiked plating available that are supposed to collide with zombies before other stuff does.

They could easily be made opaque, but that would make them inferior to boards. Not blocking movement (much like armoring a frame in the old version) helps with collisions, but not with zombies trying to break inside.



As for wheels in an empty space: nope. Everything except spikes/blades needs a frame first.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 16, 2013, 07:06:18 PM
Plating was changed to block movement and take up space like most other parts as a simpler alternative to the old system - parts were randomly flagged "NO_REINFORCE" (without much thought -  you could reinforce a seat, but not a kitchen unit) and you had no way to know this except trial and error (or reading the json files).
Taking up a slot yes, blocking movement is orthoganal to that, right?
They could easily be made opaque, but that would make them inferior to boards. Not blocking movement (much like armoring a frame in the old version) helps with collisions, but not with zombies trying to break inside.
Yea, it doesn't help with keeping zombies out, it's not supposed to, it's just supposed to protect the parts that DO keep zombies out.

This sounds like an easy fix, remove movement blocking from armor, and update vehicle designs to have boards, doors, or windshields where they want to block movement.  I'm pretty sure that's what's intended.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: EkarusRyndren on October 16, 2013, 08:42:30 PM
Personally, I'd love it if windows were switched to the lines that glass walls use, the " bugs me when it rotates... XD

But that's just me
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: i2amroy on October 16, 2013, 08:51:56 PM
Personally, I'd love it if windows were switched to the lines that glass walls use, the " bugs me when it rotates... XD
That might not be that bad of an idea, I've always found the " a little annoying myself.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Blaze on October 16, 2013, 09:45:34 PM
You can always mod it.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on October 16, 2013, 10:54:03 PM
This sounds like an easy fix, remove movement blocking from armor, and update vehicle designs to have boards, doors, or windshields where they want to block movement.  I'm pretty sure that's what's intended.

The only vehicles that comes with armor are the quad bike (one piece on the front), the military truck (across the front), and the armored car (all around the exterior).

If it's fine to prevent other stuff going in that slot, then it just takes removing the "OBSTACLE" flag from plating in vehicle_parts.json to remedy this.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: meowmers on October 17, 2013, 01:22:59 AM
what about making steel plating only Impassable and then making cars out of steel plating over frames. kinda like how they are in real life. then you could use Boards to  block vision and movement, like the walls on an RV. Finally using Hard Plating as the additional armor.

Frames like the current version (like the skeleton of the vehicle)
Steel Plating like the currently exist but used on top of Frames to keep stuff out (like the body of cars)
Boards like the current version but used an obstructed alternative to Steel Plating, also allowing armor (like body of some trucks or RVs)
Hard/Spiked/Superalloy Plating as the armor for armored vehicles.
Does that make sense.


Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: EkarusRyndren on October 17, 2013, 01:35:46 AM
I still think the old system worked best as far as armor & boards was concerned something like this (below) would be ideal:

[frame]
-board-
(steel plating)
-headlight-

Anything above (The frame, and board) the Steel plating is "armored" anything below it isn't, merging "Steel plating" and "board" as one object prevents players from being able to melt down other cars to make steel plating to go over other parts.

That said a separate symbol for parts that can't be armored would be nice so that one can know their attempts to armor say a Welding Rig are futile. This also allows for armoring "Hoods" of vehicles without blocking LoS or making the area impassable.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: meowmers on October 17, 2013, 01:48:48 AM
I still think the old system worked best as far as armor & boards was concerned something like this (below) would be ideal:

[frame]
-board-
(steel plating)
-headlight-

Anything above (The frame, and board) the Steel plating is "armored" anything below it isn't, merging "Steel plating" and "board" as one object prevents players from being able to melt down other cars to make steel plating to go over other parts.

That said a separate symbol for parts that can't be armored would be nice so that one can know their attempts to armor say a Welding Rig are futile. This also allows for armoring "Hoods" of vehicles without blocking LoS or making the area impassable.
that does not solve the problem of not having to use car doors. If there existed another thing like Boards but only impassible for cars to be made out of.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: EkarusRyndren on October 17, 2013, 01:52:06 AM
I still think the old system worked best as far as armor & boards was concerned something like this (below) would be ideal:

[frame]
-board-
(steel plating)
-headlight-

Anything above (The frame, and board) the Steel plating is "armored" anything below it isn't, merging "Steel plating" and "board" as one object prevents players from being able to melt down other cars to make steel plating to go over other parts.

That said a separate symbol for parts that can't be armored would be nice so that one can know their attempts to armor say a Welding Rig are futile. This also allows for armoring "Hoods" of vehicles without blocking LoS or making the area impassable.
that does not solve the problem of not having to use car doors. If there existed another thing like Boards but only impassible for cars to be made out of.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the front end of a "car" is something like this:
0""0

Right? Why not put windshield over the tires? I think I did that to fix a bus' "holes" once
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: meowmers on October 17, 2013, 04:07:08 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the front end of a "car" is something like this:
0""0

Right? Why not put windshield over the tires? I think I did that to fix a bus' "holes" once
thats what i do now. i really dont mind the system thats in place now but my  ride has become this:

(click to show/hide)

and im not sure if that armor layer does anything.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: youtoo on October 17, 2013, 05:12:06 PM
can this be stickied? we should move it to the wiki.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Iron Foot on October 20, 2013, 03:04:33 AM
I seem to find cars to have been heavily nerfed. Even with a armored semi zombies swerve me and hitting a wreck at 40 destroys a fourth of my semi.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: i2amroy on October 22, 2013, 07:25:06 PM
I seem to find cars to have been heavily nerfed. Even with a armored semi zombies swerve me and hitting a wreck at 40 destroys a fourth of my semi.
Important note, the new system is experimental only for the next week or so until the release hits.

Second note:
Running into a giant ball of metal at 40 mph is gonna do some damage to your car, regardless of how much you armor it. Yes, there are some bugs, but it certainly still makes more sense then the previous version where you could go careening off through buildings without a care in the world.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Fox on October 25, 2013, 08:37:31 PM
Will we ever be able to build a proper APC? With firing ports and such? Rather than a big box with a vulnerable window in front.

Edit: Firing ports like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahz3x38-aqk
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 25, 2013, 09:19:31 PM
Eventually yea, there are some fov and map drawing issues with them at the moment.  The real deal restricts your sight and firing angles a great deal, we don't have a way to do that right now.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on October 28, 2013, 04:08:57 PM
Armor has just been put into its own slot, so you can now armor anything and everything if you have enough plating. Armor plates don't stack with each other.

Armor's effect is that it takes damage before any other part does. Armoring internal parts is unlikely to help you unless you blow up your gas tank, in which case you probably have bigger problems than your bed/kitchen getting smashed.

I realized that it was just a hold-over from the old system without enough justification to keep it in; so now you can armor away gleefully. Maniacally, even.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Logrin on October 28, 2013, 08:58:12 PM
Just downloaded the newest experimental version and nearly exploded with joy at the scroll function that was added when modding vehicles. My only small gripe is with boards and quarter boards--most in that they do not have the wide range of symbols available to frames. I'd love to see that changed.

Also, is there a way to turn off the "YOUR TRUNKS HAVE THINGS IN THEM!" glow?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on October 30, 2013, 11:13:32 PM
I think the only symbols frames have that boards and quarterpanels don't are the cover (^), the cross (+), and the double-size ones (H and =). All that that needs is more definitions in data/json/vehicle_parts.json, which just copypasta of the other board types.

The highlight is always on at the moment. If it's a big annoyance, I could add an option to turn it off.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on October 31, 2013, 03:03:31 PM
It's not that it's annoying, it's that it reveals the contents of trunks at a distance.  For furniture like refrigerators, dressers etc it's supressed based on the "container" flag, vehicle components with cargo could use a similar flag.  So e.g. seats, floors, truck beds (maybe boxes?) would still highlight, but trunks and other enclosing cargo components wouldn't.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on October 31, 2013, 11:12:39 PM
While I do agree, the problem is that searching vehicles for items is rather more annoying than checking a fridge - if there's no item in the square, you end up bringing up the vehicle interaction window. That gets really irritating after a while.

Maybe it'll only show the glow if you're in an adjacent square? That sounds more reasonable.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on November 01, 2013, 04:52:00 PM
Showing it when you're in arms reach is totally reasonable, I'd like to do that for furniture containers too.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: i2amroy on November 14, 2013, 05:04:47 PM
Showing it when you're in arms reach is totally reasonable, I'd like to do that for furniture containers too.
+1 That seems like a great idea.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on December 10, 2013, 03:24:33 AM
As of December 9th (specifically, commit e65a28f35da9ae1593448ccfe7528ed8018c114e in the experimental), the (0, 0) frame is now destructible/removable just like any other part.

Should make it easier to clear up wreckage, or run over vehicles in a semi.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on December 10, 2013, 09:50:13 PM
Oh the glorious piles of wreckage when you smash into a car at high speed.
Now to look into making the parts come off ballistically ^_^
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on December 11, 2013, 02:02:23 AM
"The semi's frame hits the car's frame!
The car's frame is destroyed!
The car's headlight is torn off!
The flashlight (off) hits you in the head.
Game Over (Press spacebar...)"
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: vache on December 11, 2013, 05:25:45 AM
"The semi's frame hits the car's frame!
The car's frame is destroyed!
The car's headlight sails off in an arc!
The flashlight (off) hits you in the head.
Game Over (Press spacebar...)"

ftfy
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on December 18, 2013, 05:21:57 PM
So... with this system, how do you go about making a vehicle that can protect you from incoming gunfire while letting you see out? Is that possible at the moment?

Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on December 18, 2013, 11:43:29 PM
I believe (but am not 100% certain) that parts with the OBSTACLE flag will block gunfire.

So, liberal use of quarterpanels and doors should give you what you need.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on December 18, 2013, 11:52:52 PM
As in... use quarterpanels and doors instead of windshields, and attempt to put armour plates on both of these things? (Can you armour doors?)

I find myself wondering if it's possible to build a vehicle that has doors all over so you can see out like it's all made of glass.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on December 19, 2013, 02:20:29 AM
You could use reinforced windshields, if you like.

You can put armor on any square that doesn't have it already, but it only protects from direct damage so there's no point armoring the interior of your vehicle - just the edges.

And yes, you could build a doormobile if you wanted.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on December 19, 2013, 11:05:33 AM
So, does incoming gunfire affect the outer frames/surfaces of the vehicle first and "drill" its way in eventually? I'm not clear on how it works.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on December 19, 2013, 10:05:05 PM
From what I can tell, the outermost parts will be hit first. Any armor in the hit squares will take damage before anything else.

The only damage that can get around this is shock damage from high-damage collisions with stuff. Smashing on a car or shooting it only affects the hit square.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on December 19, 2013, 10:21:15 PM
Hm...

So, since you can't build multiple Z level high vehicles, I suppose the best way of making an armoured "tank" around a central pod you can see out of from all directions would actually be to have a square room made entirely out of windshields and doors, surrounded by several squares wide frames and armour plating, but no boards...
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on December 22, 2013, 05:59:12 PM
Uh... I have a new question. I just tried to wish myself the components for my old vehicle so I could rebuild it in the new game version.

It looks like there aren't any "17 inch" wheels (for example).

Just "wheels" or "wide wheels" "motorbike wheels" "bike wheels".

What happened to 36 inch wheels? Seems like the "wide wheels" are 20 inch.

I'm not sure how much effect this actually has on handling, but it seems odd.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on December 22, 2013, 06:45:13 PM
All car parts with 'bigness' (wheels, engines) have random size within a certain range.

I don't think it has much effect, except perhaps for the engine's capacity.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on December 24, 2013, 01:30:46 PM
So... I just discovered that it's possible to mount a spotlight on a vehicle.

And compared to the spotlight, headlights are complete crap.

Get one ASAP. It lights up the whole area around you. Combine that with quarter panels on all sides and you have yourself complete visibility when driving.

I am wondering what the best way of using turrets on the vehicle is though...

Do they use IFF like the normal non-vehicle turrets? I mean, I've heard people saying they can shoot YOU...

How would I avoid that? Put a single square of full board between the turret and myself? A windshield? I don't know how the friendly fire works.


Also...

If I were to attempt to create my entire base as a vehicle, would that be at all possible?

I would need a way of dropping items inside a vehicle without them going into trunks (since you can't search when they're in a container like that, and can't use them in crafting either).

I'm currently unsure how the other vehicle storage units are different to a trunk.

How is floor trunk different?

What about the cargo rack?

I know the minifridge is useless crap right now.


And finally, what crafting items (forges etc) can I NOT mount on a vehicle or get a vehicle mounted equivalent for?

The wiki seems to suggest you can drop items on a seat or bed, so could I simply fill half the vehicle with seats and mount forges on them while dumping the crafting ingredients on them?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on January 01, 2014, 02:26:31 PM
Suddenly I can't put a hydrogen tank anywhere unless there's no gas tank or battery present on the same tile.

Someone changed the vehicle construction system?

Also... you don't need welding goggles to weld any more?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Ian Strachan on January 01, 2014, 10:13:40 PM
Hydrogen tanks, unsurprisingly, have the "fuel_tank" location, so yes, they won't stack with gas tanks or batteries.

Welding goggles for welding is a bug that has a fix up for it. https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/5326 (https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/5326)

Your other questions from your previous post are about vehicles in general and should probably be posted in their own thread, not this one.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on January 01, 2014, 11:40:18 PM
Unsurprising as it may be, fuel tanks, batteries and everything else used to stack nicely as long as they weren't the same type. So this is quite a change.

In the earlier Experimental I'd been using I'd managed to construct a vehicle with multiple batteries (one of each type) on each tile along with a fuel tank on each tile and water tank on each tile.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Broken Finger on January 09, 2014, 03:13:00 PM
I don't think I really found the answer in this thread, so I'll just ask: Is there currently any reason to use windshields instead of quarterpanels? Also, how does reinforced glass compare with those two?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on January 09, 2014, 07:22:37 PM
I've been wondering about that too.

Do windshields stop bullets reaching you or something else that the panels wouldn't?

I know reinforced glass is at least useful for armouring your solar panels...
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: KA101 on March 26, 2014, 11:03:03 PM
I've been wondering about that too.

Do windshields stop bullets reaching you or something else that the panels wouldn't?

I know reinforced glass is at least useful for armouring your solar panels...

Pretty confident that they stop rain from reaching you, and that it's either windshields or boards for that effect on the sides of a vehicle.  (You'll need a roof, too.)
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: HeadWar on March 28, 2014, 01:24:20 PM
A roofed quarterpanel will be functionally identical to a windshield, except it doesn't break as easily. I picture it as either a metal plate with a substantial vision slit, or else as an opening with metal bars solid and close enough to prevent any unwanted zombie incursions. Very Mad Max. =)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xRFNBWST25E/SZEgxSZ9YKI/AAAAAAAADEo/CEeftMxnZSQ/s400/Mad+Max+Mod.jpg)
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: prytoclasm on March 31, 2014, 11:38:51 AM
A roofed quarterpanel will be functionally identical to a windshield, except it doesn't break as easily. I picture it as either a metal plate with a substantial vision slit, or else as an opening with metal bars solid and close enough to prevent any unwanted zombie incursions. Very Mad Max. =)

MadMAX (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xRFNBWST25E/SZEgxSZ9YKI/AAAAAAAADEo/CEeftMxnZSQ/s400/Mad+Max+Mod.jpg)

Now I know what I've missed all the time ingame ... halftracks!
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: HeadWar on March 31, 2014, 10:54:55 PM
Actually, you don't even need to roof it, a quarterpanel counts as an inside/outside divider in the same way as a board or windshield, so as far as I can tell, there is no difference at all between a windshield and a quarterpanel, except you can't mount a curtain on a quarterpanel. Doesn't seem quite right...

Quarterpanels should probably not block movement/firing, but should be a requirement for mounting a windshield/window.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Tibaron75 on September 18, 2014, 04:46:57 PM
I hope this is in the right thread, in the new system I can't figure out how to make my lights (installed flashlights) face the right direction.  It asks for a direction but I don’t know what to push so I hit ESC.  Then it just places the light facing in a random direction.  Any help would be awesome!  Thanks!
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Abbysynth on September 18, 2014, 05:08:05 PM
I hope this is in the right thread, in the new system I can't figure out how to make my lights (installed flashlights) face the right direction.  It asks for a direction but I don’t know what to push so I hit ESC.  Then it just places the light facing in a random direction.  Any help would be awesome!  Thanks!

When it asks you to choose a direction the pointer is by default on the light. Use the arrow keys to move it around based on the direction your car is currently facing, then hit enter. That's it!

Ie, if your car is facing down, and you want your headlights to point whereever you're facing (ie. the front of the car), you would move the cursor down.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 18, 2014, 05:11:24 PM
A separate thread in the garage would be the most correct location.
The UI is definitely not the greatest, when you have the "pick a direction" menu up, you hit enter, then move a cursor around as if you were in look around mode, then hit enter to set the aim point.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Burnt Earth on January 27, 2015, 09:51:22 PM
The headlight direction thing confused me quite a bit when I was mashing the up key and nothing happened.

What I don't quite get, since I can't read code, what are the differences between motorcycle/car/truck/storage batteries and car/truck alternators and how does the power of the engine/ power source effect them? IRL, automotive alternators are absolutely crap for generating electricity, they need extremely high rpms and are designed to keep an already fully charged battery charged, not to recharge a depleted one. You can't just, say, pull the alternator off your car and run it to a pully spun by a windmill and run it to a 12v battery. It wouldn't work.

So I have a simple generator in my basement, does an I-4 matter against a 0.XXcl lawnmower engine if they consume the same amount of fuel? What if I use a diesel off an APC and use a motorcycle alternator? How does this all work?

Minor question... if I want a seat in a vehicle enclosed against the weather, do I need to put roof parts on the adjutant spaces where I have board parts? Also, I notice I get alot of 'the wind is making your 'X bodypart' very cold!' nomatter the condition of the vehicle, closed doors and everything when I'm driving. I'm considering my survivors just roll in super-duper military-adamentium-plated sci-fi motorcycles since roofs and seats and windshields don't seem to block wind or anything.





Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Abbysynth on January 28, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
What I don't quite get, since I can't read code, what are the differences between motorcycle/car/truck/storage batteries and car/truck alternators and how does the power of the engine/ power source effect them? IRL, automotive alternators are absolutely crap for generating electricity, they need extremely high rpms and are designed to keep an already fully charged battery charged, not to recharge a depleted one. You can't just, say, pull the alternator off your car and run it to a pully spun by a windmill and run it to a 12v battery. It wouldn't work.

So I have a simple generator in my basement, does an I-4 matter against a 0.XXcl lawnmower engine if they consume the same amount of fuel? What if I use a diesel off an APC and use a motorcycle alternator? How does this all work?

The alternator/battery situation IIRC was written by someone who had no idea how alternators work, and people just went with it. It's thus a lot more work now to remove it. Currently I believe all they do is generate power when your engine is on, which yes is quite unrealistic, but from a gameplay perspective it's not all that far-fetched. The game's not set in the present, after all.

(some time later, having browsed yonder Git..)

So it looks like alternators simply are the opposite of power-consuming devices, codewise. You can fit one of each size onto the same engine with no repercussions. The engine does not affect the power generated, only the size of the alternator does. The most efficient one is the truck alternator. As long as the attached engine is running, the alternator will continue to generate electrical power into any battery storage on the vehicle. The power storage also makes no difference, they are all just different max capacities and weights and nothing else, though the small storage battery I believe can be attached to already crowded vehicle tiles.

The best engine to use would be a single 1-cylinder gas or diesel with all 3 alternators attached and as many storage batteries you can cram onto it, and at least 1 swappable battery so you can refill other devices with it.

Quote
Minor question... if I want a seat in a vehicle enclosed against the weather, do I need to put roof parts on the adjutant spaces where I have board parts? Also, I notice I get alot of 'the wind is making your 'X bodypart' very cold!' nomatter the condition of the vehicle, closed doors and everything when I'm driving. I'm considering my survivors just roll in super-duper military-adamentium-plated sci-fi motorcycles since roofs and seats and windshields don't seem to block wind or anything.

Currently vehicle interiors don't block windchill, that is, temperature loss due to speed. It does however stop ambient temperature from affecting you just as if you were indoors. To make a tile turn "Indoors" it has to have a roof, and either a roof, a board or a door in non-diagonal adjacent tiles.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Coolthulhu on January 28, 2015, 03:41:19 PM
The best engine to use would be a single 1-cylinder gas or diesel with all 3 alternators attached and as many storage batteries you can cram onto it, and at least 1 swappable battery so you can refill other devices with it.

Nope.
Adding less efficient alternators decreases efficiency.

Best generator design is any engine smaller than V12 + single truck alternator.

Engine fuel usage scales linearly with its load, but has a lower cap of 1%. Truck alternator load is exactly 1% of 10 L engine and only engine that can be 10 L or more is V12.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Abbysynth on January 28, 2015, 04:38:41 PM
The best engine to use would be a single 1-cylinder gas or diesel with all 3 alternators attached and as many storage batteries you can cram onto it, and at least 1 swappable battery so you can refill other devices with it.

Nope.
Adding less efficient alternators decreases efficiency.

Best generator design is any engine smaller than V12 + single truck alternator.

Engine fuel usage scales linearly with its load, but has a lower cap of 1%. Truck alternator load is exactly 1% of 10 L engine and only engine that can be 10 L or more is V12.

Ah! I stand corrected.

Also something I didn't know before: You can attach alternators to foot pedals to make power without using fuel.. but I'm not sure how the foot pedals work in terms of the "engine" being "on", which is a requirement for alternators to work.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: KA101 on January 28, 2015, 11:20:28 PM
You have to be on the tile and "driving" but that's about it.  I think you can read, etc if you're set to 0 speed on cruise control.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Burnt Earth on January 29, 2015, 10:48:50 PM
The alternator/battery situation IIRC was written by someone who had no idea how alternators work, and people just went with it. It's thus a lot more work now to remove it. Currently I believe all they do is generate power when your engine is on, which yes is quite unrealistic, but from a gameplay perspective it's not all that far-fetched. The game's not set in the present, after all.

(some time later, having browsed yonder Git..)

So it looks like alternators simply are the opposite of power-consuming devices, codewise. You can fit one of each size onto the same engine with no repercussions. The engine does not affect the power generated, only the size of the alternator does. The most efficient one is the truck alternator. As long as the attached engine is running, the alternator will continue to generate electrical power into any battery storage on the vehicle. The power storage also makes no difference, they are all just different max capacities and weights and nothing else, though the small storage battery I believe can be attached to already crowded vehicle tiles.

The best engine to use would be a single 1-cylinder gas or diesel with all 3 alternators attached and as many storage batteries you can cram onto it, and at least 1 swappable battery so you can refill other devices with it.

Quote
Minor question... if I want a seat in a vehicle enclosed against the weather, do I need to put roof parts on the adjutant spaces where I have board parts? Also, I notice I get alot of 'the wind is making your 'X bodypart' very cold!' nomatter the condition of the vehicle, closed doors and everything when I'm driving. I'm considering my survivors just roll in super-duper military-adamentium-plated sci-fi motorcycles since roofs and seats and windshields don't seem to block wind or anything.

Currently vehicle interiors don't block windchill, that is, temperature loss due to speed. It does however stop ambient temperature from affecting you just as if you were indoors. To make a tile turn "Indoors" it has to have a roof, and either a roof, a board or a door in non-diagonal adjacent tiles.

That was helpful, thanks. Yeah, I suppose alternators don't need to be 'realistic' if it's in the future and whatnot, jury-rigging generators should be a thing.  I noticed quarter panels stop bullets and count as 'indoors' so I'm thinking of eliminating windshields and boards from my designs.

Out of curiosity, I don't suppose some perpetual-motion-machine type effect could be done with a small electric motor, alternators and batteries everywhere, right? The drain from the motor idling would deplete the battery faster then it recharges or do alternators only work on fueled vehicles? If the bike-pedal thing works...
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: KA101 on January 30, 2015, 02:10:03 AM
Nope, electric motors are basically the opposite of an alternator, so that specifically is a Lossy situation.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: troll from behind on February 03, 2015, 09:02:45 AM
So what do I need to turn my rv into a electric one?
Mainly in need of info about electric engines, batteries and such.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Datanazush on February 03, 2015, 10:14:27 AM
So what do I need to turn my rv into a electric one?
Mainly in need of info about electric engines, batteries and such.

You're going to need a lot of solar panels. Preferably quantum, but upgraded solar panels work alright. This is your only source of power outside of manually refilling it with batteries or mounting a minireactor.
Other than that, electric motors are kinda slow IIRC, so you may need multiple installed to match the speed of a V8 engine.
Storage batteries are the best because they hold SO MUCH POWER, but truck batteries are good too. I'm reasonably sure you can fit one of each size onto a tile, so if you have them use them.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: AllisonW on February 03, 2015, 10:16:48 AM
My opinion is probably unpopular, but I never saw the point of driving at 400 miles an hour anyway. Even something like 100 isn't terribly useful, what with Cata's winding roadways filled with twists and turns and wreckage.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Dec on February 15, 2015, 10:42:46 PM
My opinion is probably unpopular, but I never saw the point of driving at 400 miles an hour anyway. Even something like 100 isn't terribly useful, what with Cata's winding roadways filled with twists and turns and wreckage.
I personally agree, any speed that allows me to kill something large with one or two passes is enough for me. Anything higher, and I usually get shot outta my windshield after colliding with an object.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Azrad on March 23, 2015, 09:27:43 AM
My brain is completely lagging about this... how do I make a car into an indoor electric system for storing food and providing light? Like... do I have to make an entire car? Or what parts are required for them? Found several minifridges, and enough car parts, but I'm unsure on how to set it up.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Zero on March 23, 2015, 01:24:07 PM
You need a power source - solar panels outside or an engine+alternator+controls. You need electrical storage - batteries. Other than that you need things you'll be using.

A popular method is to put a frame with a solar panel and battery outside then run a jumper cable or heavy cable into your house where you have a frame with your minifridge, kitchen unit, controls and a floodlight.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Azrad on March 24, 2015, 04:41:02 AM
It doesn't seem to be working yet. So my current setup is four solar panels outside, four steel frames, a car battery, and controls. A heavy duty cable, to connect it indoors on the frame with a minifridge and controls.

Am I missing other components, or is it a matter of needing more solar panels. If so, how many more do I need?

If I were to use gasoline instead, what parts do I need for that. For most part, got no shortage of parts. I can make a car via imitating a wrecked one, but making a small, indoor only electrical system escapes me.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Zero on March 24, 2015, 03:24:30 PM
What part of it isn't working? Your minifridge is switched on inside? Is the battery outside charging?

Replace the solar panels with an engine, gas tank and alternator for minimal gas version.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Azrad on March 24, 2015, 03:54:29 PM
What part of it isn't working? Your minifridge is switched on inside? Is the battery outside charging?

Replace the solar panels with an engine, gas tank and alternator for minimal gas version.

Not quite sure. Maybe it's not charging yet. Is the reality bubble thing in effect? I went far away from my base the moment the set things up. On the minifridge frame, do I need a battery as well on that?

Could also be the fact that the solar panels ain't getting enough sunlight, since it's been drizzles on mornings and only clear during night.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Coolthulhu on March 24, 2015, 04:24:52 PM
Maybe it's not charging yet. Is the reality bubble thing in effect?

If you have autosave on or otherwise saved while far from the vehicle, it probably is reality bubble.
Vehicles outside bubble are only processed if they were in the bubble since last save.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Blaze on March 24, 2015, 04:25:49 PM
Your setup seems a bit iffy, let's streamline it a bit.

Your outer solar farm should consist of:

Frames.
Solar Panels.

That's it. There's no need for controls, as solar panels are 100% automatic, and no need for armoring since they aren't obstacles and can't be damaged except by your smashing, explosives, and vehicle impacts.

Your inner "vehicle" should hold:

Batteries
Controls
Fittings/Appliances

If you put any batteries on the outer vehicle, it'll try to charge that one before sending anything through the cable. Keeping the battery inside also lets you check your remaining power without going outside.

Note that batteries have fairly large capacity and regular solar panels are quite slow in generating power. Even a single car battery won't show 1% power charge until you reach at least 300 power.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Azrad on March 24, 2015, 05:39:55 PM
Your setup seems a bit iffy, let's streamline it a bit.

Your outer solar farm should consist of:

Frames.
Solar Panels.

That's it. There's no need for controls, as solar panels are 100% automatic, and no need for armoring since they aren't obstacles and can't be damaged except by your smashing, explosives, and vehicle impacts.

Your inner "vehicle" should hold:

Batteries
Controls
Fittings/Appliances

If you put any batteries on the outer vehicle, it'll try to charge that one before sending anything through the cable. Keeping the battery inside also lets you check your remaining power without going outside.

Note that batteries have fairly large capacity and regular solar panels are quite slow in generating power. Even a single car battery won't show 1% power charge until you reach at least 300 power.

I see. So, for the inner vehicle that's where I add in the battery, yes? Is it car, truck, or storage batteries? Can I add in something for gasoline as well, just in case I don't get enough charge from the solar panels? Since I got around four minifridges set up, will I that require more energy (since volume aside I wanna keep things organized).

I also have something that can use hydrogen as well. Will that be better than gasoline? (though it seems hydrogen is more scarce than gasoline)

Lastly, so outdoors is the solar farm. Indoors on one room is the minifridge setup. Can I link the minifridge setup to another frame in another room so it can get power from the solar panels?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Blaze on March 24, 2015, 06:13:04 PM
It doesn't matter which battery you use, as long as it's a battery. You can install all batteries on a single tile if you want.

More fridges do use more energy.

Engine generators are faster than solar panels, and you can install them along with the solar panels. Install an engine, alternator (you can stick all 3 on the same engine), gas tank, and controls and then switch the engine on. Remember that the engine will keep using gas even after the battery is full, so turn it off if you don't need power. The power of the engine doesn't matter, but remember that large engines use more gas and generate more noise (mufflers help the noise a bit).

Hydrogen or gasoline doesn't matter in power generation, just the alternators you attach to the engines.

Finally, remember that you lose power for every jumper cable the power travels through.
So you waste more energy if you do:
Power Farm -> Fridges -> Whatever

You can stick multiple jumper cables on the same vehicle.
You can save a tiny bit of power if you did:
Power Farm -> Fridges
Power Farm -> Whatever

You'll save a bit of power if you install the power generator on the fridge frames, but having a working engine inside makes a lot of smoke that's hard to get rid of. So the tradeoff is up to you.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Oskatat on April 15, 2015, 11:11:53 AM
It doesn't seem to be working yet. So my current setup is four solar panels outside, four steel frames, a car battery, and controls. A heavy duty cable, to connect it indoors on the frame with a minifridge and controls.

Am I missing other components, or is it a matter of needing more solar panels. If so, how many more do I need?

If I were to use gasoline instead, what parts do I need for that. For most part, got no shortage of parts. I can make a car via imitating a wrecked one, but making a small, indoor only electrical system escapes me.

just in case it hadnt been resolved yet - you need a jumper cable to connect your rigs, a heavy duty cable is for towing other vehicles
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Coolthulhu on April 15, 2015, 11:23:43 AM
just in case it hadnt been resolved yet - you need a jumper cable to connect your rigs, a heavy duty cable is for towing other vehicles

Nope. Both cables are jumper cables, heavy duty just has longer range but worse efficiency.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Oskatat on April 15, 2015, 07:15:18 PM
is the wiki still updated? :(
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: KA101 on April 16, 2015, 12:57:34 AM
is the wiki still updated? :(

To the degree that folks are able to do so.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: troll from behind on April 22, 2015, 11:54:39 AM
Better ask sooner than later...
Can one make a "landtrain" with seperatable cars through somekind of quick release joint or do I have to resort to remove frame connecting different cars every time I want to dumb my cargo&base-cars to go scouting in my armoured frontcar?
Does the current system EVEN support a multi-section vehicles?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Zero on April 22, 2015, 05:10:47 PM
Multi-section and towing is not currently implemented.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: is-npc on July 21, 2016, 09:10:52 AM
I don't know anything about that
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Deez Nutz on September 01, 2016, 06:43:30 AM
Speaking of cars, how do I get mounted turrets to work in the recent experimentals? I set them to auto and they don't do anything, and I try to shoot them manually and nothing happens.  And yes I did remember to load them first. 
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: DG123 on September 06, 2016, 10:57:02 PM
Speaking of cars, how do I get mounted turrets to work in the recent experimentals? I set them to auto and they don't do anything, and I try to shoot them manually and nothing happens.  And yes I did remember to load them first.

I think I read something about vehicle turrets having been broken in a recent update... I could be wrong...

Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: Deez Nutz on September 08, 2016, 11:39:21 PM
Damit :(
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: TooDAMNMuch on June 22, 2017, 08:13:10 AM
is there a difference between all the different types of frames? any list of that?
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: nick0010 on June 22, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
Well they all have different weight, durability, and cost. A wooden frame is easy to make and attach but heavier and weaker than a regular frame. A regular frame takes steel and a forge to make, and a welder to attach, but is lighter and stronger than wood. A heavy duty frame costs more steel than a regular frame and is stronger, but is also heavier. Military composite frames are as strong as it gets, used on tanks and armored vehicles, but need a strong engine if you want to move faster than a walking pace, as well as being uncraftable. Superalloy plating is actually quite a bit weaker than military plating, and i believe even heavy duty plating, but is also much lighter. By weight its the strongest frame you can install
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: TooDAMNMuch on June 24, 2017, 09:30:15 AM
i meant the shapes, not the materials.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: TooDAMNMuch on June 24, 2017, 08:33:26 PM
i meant the shapes, not the materials.

basically, the reason i ask, is because from using the vehicle construction system it becomes clear that parts of the same materials but different shapes are not identical (it was a while ago, but i recall at one point having to use specific shapes to get a non-jointed two tile hand cart vehicle versus one with a swivel joint in the middle) and seem to behave differently and i've looked everywhere i can think of but i can't find any actual data about what the shape of the frame changes.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: §k on June 26, 2017, 01:36:11 AM
A frame is a frame. The shape is purely cosmetic.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: tarburst98 on June 26, 2017, 03:41:35 AM
different frame shapes appearing to work differently is simply confirmation bias.
Title: Re: New vehicle construction system explained
Post by: TooDAMNMuch on June 26, 2017, 03:50:49 AM
different frame shapes appearing to work differently is simply confirmation bias.

i believe you guys if you say so, but i swear i remember having to use specific shapes to get a two tile vehicle that didn't act like it had a joint before is all.