Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - Official Forums

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead => The Lab - Contributions and Mods => Topic started by: acidia on April 01, 2015, 02:33:39 AM

Title: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 01, 2015, 02:33:39 AM
So, I was experimenting with having an NPC camp over the weekend since I really haven't heard much feedback about things in the vault (too hard/easy/not rewarding?)...
(click to show/hide)

A labeled image...
(click to show/hide)

There are a number of interesting elements that I'm testing but I could use a bit of brain storming on how to expand the general camp/town/outpost.  I have a number of long term goals but the small stuff while the population increases adds flavor.  The development of the camp is focused on a never ending supply of missions focused around the construction foreman in the garage.  The main limiting factor for his work is large quantities of resources.  You just have to pull your truck into the garage and he'll pull quest items right out of your trunks.  In DF fashion, migrants are assigned jobs as they arrive that will subsidize the cost of major projects or make other improvements while you focus on priorities.  The timing of growth is attached to missions which will shorty occupy the quest giver to prevent quickly spamming them to blitz through growth stages.

There are lots of things going on with the NPCs in the background that I'll leave out for now but what do you think would be the next priority for construction if you were in a serious/low science fiction/rebuilding situation?
Rough Mission Line for Construction Foreman
1) 2x4's to enclose barn
2) Blankets for beds
3) Nails for continued construction
4) Salt to trade for agricultural supplies
5) Fertilizer for the crops
6) Stones for the well and fireplaces
7) Pipes for the pump and sawmill machinery
8) Motors for the sawmill
->Not included is the next growth stage including outhouses, tool shed, and finished sawmill

Quick Background:
Refugee Center too full -> Send team out to establish agricultural outpost to support the refugee center w/ Old Guard assistance -> Migrants diverted to outpost as it is developed to handle them
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: sammyjudo on April 01, 2015, 12:27:18 PM
i would raid a hydroponics lab and a lab of electric science and make my own giant hydroponics farm running on nuclear of solar power
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Zireael on April 01, 2015, 03:09:23 PM
Looks amazing!
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: PropaneSoup on April 01, 2015, 07:57:11 PM
Very, very cool :)
 

There are lots of things going on with the NPCs in the background that I'll leave out for now but what do you think would be the next priority for construction if you were in a serious/low science fiction/rebuilding situation?
Rough Mission Line for Construction Foreman
1) 2x4's to enclose barn
2) Blankets for beds
3) Nails for continued construction
4) Salt to trade for agricultural supplies
5) Fertilizer for the crops
6) Stones for the well and fireplaces
7) Pipes for the pump and sawmill machinery
8) Motors for the sawmill
->Not included is the next growth stage including outhouses, tool shed, and finished sawmill


Personally, I would think stones for the well and fireplaces would be higher up on the list, maybe before salt.
As for what comes next, I would think a search for weapons and ammo, perhaps explosives even, would be some kind of goal.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: vache on April 01, 2015, 09:54:00 PM
I think you did too good of a job hiding the vault.  Seems a lot of people believe there's just sewers under there.  NPC quests directing people there might help them explore more though. 

I'd have the quests work in a less linear manner.  Have the foreman say something like "We have too many needs to count.  For now, we need 2x4s to make the barn liveable, blankets to keep our people warm through the winter, metal sheeting to build a wall, concrete for expansion, and any seeds you can bring us."  Then you have the choice of whichever supplies you want to bring first, and different portions of the outpost get updated faster depending on what you bring.  You could allow the player to turn in as much as they want at any point, but the actual construction would be time-gated to prevent the blitz upgrading.  Then, once you've hit a certain level of stability for each of those original needs, the supplies become more complex, including tools, motors, storage batteries, pipe, wire, radios, crafted items and that sort of thing. 

It would be interesting if we could include vehicles in quest turn ins as well.  Something like "We need a way to safely move a large group of people.  A school bus will suffice, but if you find one of those large troop carriers that would be ideal."  And dropping one of those off would increase the rate of npcs coming around.

I would imagine the quest line could be furthered, once enough people have come around, you need to expand further.  Then the player has to clear a structure meant to hold a lot of people (apartment building or hotel), and everyone not necessary to run the farm will be moved out there.  The situation would be something like: refugee center is the old guard stronghold and their headquarters in the area, the farm provides food to the center and the apartment, and the apartment building is where the average person lives.  Your role as the player would be to assist the old guard in establishing secure transportation and communication networks between the three facilities, and expanding the safe zone around each facility.  I dunno how realistic this would be (splitting people up away from the food source when gas is a relatively limited resource), but it's a thought.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: KA101 on April 02, 2015, 03:53:20 AM
The refugee center has vehicles already (they used school buses to move there) so perhaps fuel/charged batteries might be a better trade than whole vehicles.

Agreed that the vault isn't easy to find, even if you know it's there and are debug-equipped to check it out.  (Perhaps you're testing a PR or something.  ;-) )  One thing I'd suggest is making sure there's a way that vehicles could--theoretically--get from the vehicle lift at the vault, to the surface.  I'm not sure whether there is one and I missed it/it got Demolished as part of the Cataclysm, but that sort of thing (hmm, what's an elevator/this large ramp-down behind a secured door/etc doing here on z=0?) might get people looking.

vache's idea about running the needs in parallel rather than sequence is good and I'd second it.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Talvara on April 02, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
How about a watchtower Requiring a donation of binoculars, radios and building supplies. to allow them early warning should a horde be incoming.

Maybe a local power-grid project allowing them electrical upgrades like fridges or lights. which could work off different types of energy like:

Solar arrays if there's an npc with high electrician skills around (maybe a rescue or recruitment mission to get one)
Gasoline generators.
etc.

Maybe the camp could eventually build things like a motor-pool where the player can have her vehicles repaired in exchange for supplies. (requiring a skilled Mechanic)
or a chem-lab for your drug/gunpowder needs.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 02, 2015, 09:31:33 PM
Keep the good ideas coming, a lot of this so far will make it in eventually. 

On a side note, how do ya'll foresee investing in agriculture?  I was trying to create a way for the player to invest in crops as a form of low risk return.  What I was thinking was having the crop foreman let the player select from a number of fields constructed by the NPCs, the player would pay them to plant whatever crop you desire but there will be a number of factors that would determine the amount of plants that actually sprouted.  At harvest time, you have three options: harvest the plants yourself, pay the NPCs to harvest the plants, or have the NPCs liquidate the crop and net you a significant financial return on the crop.  The NPCs would be all for it because they get their cut whether you make a hefty profit or you accidentally burn down your field and have nothing to show for your work.

I like the above idea because it is literally the simplest (there are no new values that I need to save associated with the player, just transforming terrain) and makes sense.  The only thing I might want is a menu to display potential returns and when you are planting out of season.  Everything else would work just like the player planted the crop themselves.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Frostwood on April 02, 2015, 11:16:48 PM
Keep the good ideas coming, a lot of this so far will make it in eventually. 

On a side note, how do ya'll foresee investing in agriculture?  I was trying to create a way for the player to invest in crops as a form of low risk return.  What I was thinking was having the crop foreman let the player select from a number of fields constructed by the NPCs, the player would pay them to plant whatever crop you desire but there will be a number of factors that would determine the amount of plants that actually sprouted.  At harvest time, you have three options: harvest the plants yourself, pay the NPCs to harvest the plants, or have the NPCs liquidate the crop and net you a significant financial return on the crop.  The NPCs would be all for it because they get their cut whether you make a hefty profit or you accidentally burn down your field and have nothing to show for your work.

I like the above idea because it is literally the simplest (there are no new values that I need to save associated with the player, just transforming terrain) and makes sense.  The only thing I might want is a menu to display potential returns and when you are planting out of season.  Everything else would work just like the player planted the crop themselves.

It would probably be best to use the underused faction menu.

As for the vault, you need a to build a legend, because not everyone would get the reference(I haven't played any of the fallout games), so maybe some survivor notes, lab notes,  a newspaper page(or something like the national enquirer) hinting at the existence of a vault, a advertisement in a flyer.  For bonus points you could have a few bodies with 'tickets'(or orders) to the vault.  Even better would be a 'vault' access keycard that works like the military and science cards, which lead to the players to question-"A vault access keycard, I wonder what it does?"  Then with the pieces of clues a player could find their way to the vault.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Antistar on April 03, 2015, 12:46:32 AM
This all sounds pretty great. There's a huge amount of potential there so my brain's getting a bit of opportunity paralysis, but a small thing that came to mind is that for something to collect for the outpost, people would probably appreciate soap. Maybe towels as well? But definitely soap.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: John Candlebury on April 03, 2015, 03:14:22 AM
A flaw I see in the layout is that the camp hasn't got a centralized cafeteria area nor an armory. The perhaps wouldnt be there from the start, but I think they should be one of the first things to appar.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Zireael on April 03, 2015, 10:38:32 AM
I like these ideas:
- vault notes and corpses
- soap and towels
- cafeteria
- armory
- investing in crops
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: mouseturd on April 03, 2015, 03:27:50 PM
Love this concept! Its the "fort mode" of Cataclysm haha. This game needs an "end game goal", I think this is perfect. Finding NPC's and recruiting them, giving loot runs meaning (need antibiotics or people will die), and a sense of accomplishment when you build up this base.

Some ideas:

A blacksmith's shed. Needs outfitted with all the typical items for forging. Main benefit of this shop is that gives you the ability to melt down scrap metal for nails quickly. Helps with all sorts of building projects there.

Supply warehouse: Where all generic supplies are stored. Would be NICE to have a bunch of labeled crates here. After supply runs, when you perform your item dump to the foreman. All items will get brought to warehouse and sorted into the proper crates automatically. For example, hand tools in a crate, chemicals in another crate, ect ect.

Makeshift Infirmary: Med supplies are stored here. Will have beds, tables, and scattered crates. Injured NPCs can be found resting here. If you are lucky enough to get a migrant doctor NPC they will set up shop and it boosts the healing process.

Meeting Hall: Central building where town meetings are held at. Maybe have this as start location with scattered blankets and the foreman comforting the random NPCs. Once you get the barn rebuilt, blankets are removed and beds are built there. If there is a raid, people go to the meeting hall for protection. Perhaps this is a church with random NPCs praying for help?

Outhouse: Can be upgraded to bath house: For general cleanliness. Without these, its more likely to have random disease outbreaks due to poor hygiene and lots of people.

Makeshift school / library: For book storage. Has chairs / desks. Lets the NPC children (if implemented) go to school, and used for general learning. Might help with town boredom.

Smokehouse: Small shed with brazier. Needs metal hooks / rope for hanging meat to cure.

Raids: With any established area, there should be hostile NPC's that want to raid it for hard earned supplies.










Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: secretfire on April 06, 2015, 10:50:19 PM
What vault are you guys referring to, above?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 07, 2015, 12:42:03 AM
Oh, uh... If you ever see some irradiated wanderers, you might want to very thoroughly search the sewers under that portion of town.  If you aren't sure what you are looking for, you've found it if you are at z-2 & z-3.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: stk2008 on April 07, 2015, 01:21:36 PM
Has this been added to latest version? if so how would one find it? :)
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 15, 2015, 07:29:26 AM
Not yet, I'm waiting to get a decent bit cobbled together so that it is worth building up for the player.

I'm currently looking at getting trade caravan guard missions to work like they do in fallout 2.  No tedium for the player and extremely simple AI.

EDIT:  Hmmm, reversing it to hunt caravans would also work if you joined the bandits...
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: KA101 on April 16, 2015, 12:09:35 AM
Re folks not finding the vault, we recently added a few text blurbs about it (including one dead-giveaway note).  Give people a week or so and they ought to start making their way into the Dead Zone.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 16, 2015, 04:09:01 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/mDQdrqs.gif)
(It's a slow animation)

This is a debug test for the outpost/colony mission system I'm looking at for the ranch commune at the moment.  Trying to use the existing system is nearly impossible, I don't even know if an NPC can actually handle having two missions at the same time.  I'll give the window merchant in the refugee center a comparable menu so you can transit back without walking.  General idea would be to have the commune missions focus on labor and food production, the refugee center act as a caravan hub, and necropolis (or somewhere else) become a combat mission hub.  Might add a 'Assign Ally to Salvage Mission' that converts houses to looted house on the map in exchange for some profit... but that might fit the atmosphere of a different camp better.  Thoughts?

I also need a better name... [SOMETHING] Commune   

EDIT:  Trying to simulate time quickly without breaching the main game loop... I wonder if I could temporarily teleport the characters to the -10 z level for safe keeping when everyone is on their missions?  It would keep them stationary and allow time to pass properly in the main game loop without having the game lag to hell if you need to pass multiple days 'in mission.'  The only other thing I could think of is creating an empty X/admin dimension but that would be a lot more work.  Hey, it might even be fun... dig down far enough and you'll run into your NPC buddies (or just their corpses) that died on bandit patrol rotting in hell.  This sounds a feature the more I think about it.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: KA101 on April 16, 2015, 04:21:21 AM
Supposed to be able to handle multi-missions, but IIRC we've never tested 'em.  Looks impressive, in any event; I'm curious re the field displaying that terrain-looking info (current state of field?) and don't have a great name for the commune.  "Agricultural" doesn't do much, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Sehn Knight on April 16, 2015, 05:26:44 AM
Could the outpost have a personal storage shed where you could drop some of yours or your survivors equipment?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: mwswimmer on April 16, 2015, 03:47:00 PM
Name it Woodbury, or Tacoma It has a nice ring to it
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Antistar on April 17, 2015, 12:41:27 AM
Maybe it could the same (or similar) random name generation as used in world creation.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: vache on April 17, 2015, 02:31:05 AM
Cities have randomly generated names.  You could name it after the nearest city.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: KA101 on April 17, 2015, 07:57:02 AM
Cities have randomly generated names.  You could name it after the nearest city.

This is probably the best way to go: that way people will finally notice the city names pre-mortem.  (We use 'em in the memorial logs.)
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Zireael on April 17, 2015, 08:20:30 AM
Cities have randomly generated names.  You could name it after the nearest city.

That's a great idea!
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Coyote on April 17, 2015, 02:17:16 PM
Cities have randomly generated names.  You could name it after the nearest city.

This is probably the best way to go: that way people will finally notice the city names pre-mortem.  (We use 'em in the memorial logs.)

Off-topic, but it feels stupid to make a thread just for this suggestion:

There could be city limit/mile marker signs on the side of the road. Real fragile, so cars can just flatten 'em without much issue.

Alternately, the city name could spawn on nearby newspapers on the ground.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: jokermatt999 on April 17, 2015, 02:53:22 PM
I seriously can't wait until this gets merged. As for creating another dimension, if there's no current system for it, it'd be nice to have one, but -10 Z is a decent quick fix since that's a project in its own right.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Coolthulhu on April 17, 2015, 10:34:22 PM
I wouldn't recommend using -10 z-level as a workaround here. In 2D mode it would work just fine, but in 3D mode it would simulate the alternate dimension every turn. 3D mode isn't yet capable of running 2 z-levels at once, but it is supposed to have that functionality and only in the form of running all z-levels at once.

A better idea would be adding some large number to x and/or y coords. For example, half of the maximum value of 32 bit integer. Anything beyond that would be a special area where mapgen would use special rules. Players could never reach area this far without cheating/debugging/getting a bug. Later on there could be a special fix for cases at "the edge of the world", but that would be a very minor thing - more of a novelty, like Minecraft's Far Lands.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 17, 2015, 11:03:30 PM
I'll look into the nearest town name thing... are the town names decent (versus silly) though?

The biggest issue with throwing the npc off to a far corner is that they are stored with a particular map title.  By saving people in "hell" I don't have to create a new list of NPCs to be managed because I always know where they are stored, in the map square -10z from the quest giver.  Creating a single z level shadow world to save everyone and allow for simulating time might be interesting... how difficult will it be to keep separate z levels that will not be simulated in the rest of the world?  Creating an entire region may be unnecessary, having a single 'end of time' location to store people would work but keeping track of who needs to return where would create a lot more info that needs to be stored/loaded.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Boy1der on April 17, 2015, 11:08:26 PM
This is quite literally the best mod that I have ever heard of for Cataclysm. Is there currently any test version? Best of luck on your very ambitious project!
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: vache on April 18, 2015, 03:49:19 AM
The city names are generally pretty reasonable, I'm not sure, but I think they draw from the same pool as the world names.  As for the other thing, I'm not really sure what the problem is.  Are you trying to ensure NPCs don't leave their location while the player is off traipsing around doing quests and whatnot?  In the long run, the solution to that might be that quests are associated with a role, not a specific NPC, so if the NPC in the leader role dies, the one that takes their place can assume their same role as the quest hub/turn in location.  In the short term, maybe just force the NPC to do nothing but wait for their return when they've given you a quest.  If they die, they die.  Call it a feature.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 18, 2015, 04:42:38 AM
This is quite a ways out so no test version yet.

The issue is that when you assign an NPC to a detail their success is simulated through a series of character/chance rolls.  The outcome is hidden until the duration of the task is fulfilled.  Until then, we need to store the NPC in a map location other than in front of you.  Easiest is -10z but I guess would become a problem when z levels are all simulated.  Storing the player character during transit is another issue... sending the player character to a boring world and granting you a 'negative sleep' (you are wearied from you labor/trip) status allows the world to be simulated while the reality bubble has nothing going on in it.  The encounters you have on transit, if you are a caravan guard, will be in actual areas along the path to your destination but the bandits you are ambushed by have to be generated when you teleport in.  Get a situation snippet, fight the battle, loot the corpses, and talk to the caravan master to continue on your trip (sending you back to an isolated area so that time can be simulated).  If you don't have any encounters, the player simply hits a 'quiet journey' screen (like the epilogues) before waking up exhausted outside their destination with a bit more cash and a few days before the next caravan leaves.  The end result is a much quicker pace for the player.

Simulating the tasks off screen means that far more complex actions are possible... I mean, send X party to clear Y town is 100% feasible.  All you need is a calculation to determine how successful they are and you are good.  The number of zombies the party can take on might be 1d6 * 10 per character in the party, any more than that and you can do a KIA check based on skill levels.  Parse through the town and remove a percentage of the monsters.  Simple version done, pick up you NPCs with more combat experience, maybe some loot, and a bounty.  The town will be partially cleared/thinned but the loot from the corpses will also be vacuumed up.  Send your squad on an autonomous looting raid, just take every item of value greater than x from a list of random houses [a,b,c].  For each item, give it a 20% chance to be dumped on the floor where the player currently is.  Convert the overmap tile from 'house' to 'looted house'.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Coolthulhu on April 18, 2015, 07:05:33 AM
Well, -10 z-level wouldn't help here either - they'd still be stored somewhere (their x/y coords would still need to be valid and remembered), it's just that they would be all underground.

NPCs are stored either in the bubble or on overmap tiles. They don't really need to be spawned anywhere to be processed. It would be better to create an abstract non-location for them to operate on them than to hack around coordinates. Especially if you don't want them to actually do the regular NPC AI things like searching for items and getting themselves killed by zombies.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Snaaty on April 22, 2015, 11:20:59 PM
This looks great so far. I don't know what you are doing, but when adding new NPC stuff imho it's always better to think "big" and to make a clean and polished addition rather than a couple of semi-finished and unbalanced missions. Your probably know thath though.
There was that one thread where the OP had a pretty well thought through idea of NPC stuff, I liked how well structured everything was there.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on April 27, 2015, 06:08:45 AM
I'm stuck on a work trip for another couple of weeks so progress is going to be slow or non-existent.  I might get a chance to upload the first twelve missions next weekend but it is still uncertain.

(click to show/hide)
Rough Mission Line for Construction Foreman
1) 2x4's to enclose barn
2) Blankets for beds
3) Nails for continued construction
4) Salt to trade for agricultural supplies
5) Fertilizer for the crops
6) Stones for the well and fireplaces
7) Pipes for the pump and sawmill machinery
8) Motors for the sawmill 
9) Bleach for sterilizing equipment for clinic
10) First aid kits for clinic (building advancement is not apparent from clairvoyant mode, half wood wall -> wood wall or dirt -> dirt floor)
11) Welders for the chop-shop
12) Car batteries to power equipment
>Next Missions<
13)  Two-Way radios for scavengers
14)  Backpacks for scavengers
15)  Homebrewer's Bible for bar
16)  Sugar for alcohol production
17)  Glass sheets for green house

If I have the time to sit down and look at the new mission system I'll let you know.  Putting them in a sleep mode in 'hell' accomplish exactly what I need, simply (they are already stored correctly so I don't need to add anything).  Being able to do the same thing with the player just makes it all the more desirable.  Even creating a new list for stored NPCs doesn't solve the issue for the player.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: jokermatt999 on May 11, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
For people who don't follow the github, I figured I'd mention the pull request has been submitted.

https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/12347

I don't generally test other PRs before they're in game, but I may have to make an exception.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on May 20, 2015, 12:15:49 AM
I suck at keeping this updated...

As mentioned above, the 17 missions I listed are all in the PR that is already up.  Part II, focuses on the new mission system for factions/companions.

(click to show/hide)
This slow gif displays how everything got implemented for the faction/outpost/companion missions.  Pretty close to the test I showed earlier.  The basic missions that have already been finished:
-Purchase East Field
-Upgrade East Field I
-Plant East Field
-Harvest East Field (50%)
-Assign Scavenging Patrol
-Assign Scavenging Raid
-Assign Ally to Menial Labor
-Assign Ally to Carpentry Work
-Assign Ally to Forage for Food
All missions aren't immediately available, you'll need to either complete missions for the holder or be successful in the entry level to prove you are competent for the more advanced missions.  The only remaining mission that I really want for part II is the caravan protection one... these are critical to part III when I look at having the missions actually alter the faction food/wealth.  Then I'll focus on either getting a third (miniature) settlement up to act as a trading partner, looking at having the player tag along for some of the above missions, fleshing out the mission simulations (currently there is only one death path the dangerous missions), or progress the foreman/story missions so that the Old Guard start showing up at the Commune. 

Thoughts or suggestions?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: vache on May 20, 2015, 12:32:53 AM
I think the $ figures on things are a little jarring.  It would make more sense to me if they claimed a large chunk of your first harvest in exchange for goodwill or some position of power within the commune.  Then after it becomes a little more established, then they move on to a fairer trading system.

The only other real issue I have is with the idea as a whole and how it fits in right now.  Gameplay-wise, I don't think there will be much of a reason to want to establish or help the commune, since all the benefits that would be provided by it (protection, food supply, water supply, etc) are all things that, usually by the time the player would be in a position to effectively help the commune, they will be far past needing.  It's not a problem with the commune itself, but I think short of revamping the rest of the gameplay progression, there will have to be some special thing opened up by having a fully functioning commune.  One solution might be to have the evac shelter computers have some way of giving the player a mission to find an evac center.  That way it would tend to drive the player towards the center as an early game goal, which then leads them to the other quest lines.

[BTW, I don't mean to sound too negative, this is pretty awesome stuff.]
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on May 20, 2015, 05:06:38 AM
Ya, not going to work without currency.  The yield of your first crop is too difficult to track since you can plant just about anything and harvest it in whatever order you want.  Heck, you don't have to use the overseer for either action... you can plant or harvest all of the crops in the field on your own if you are short on cash.  Once your fields have expanded you won't want to plant several hundred carrots every few weeks by hand... until a fire wipes your entire crop out and you end up poor again :(

The commune's goal will remain NPC development, once the commune is big enough the limit on your companions will be your income. 
(click to show/hide)
 

The refugee cent is mundane enough now that adding a locator to the evac terminal might be worth doing.

EDIT:  Harvesting is done, just have to add caravan missions and figure out saving off-map NPCs.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on May 24, 2015, 08:33:24 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/luGUuwA.gif)
If anyone wants to draw a draft for a basic interface for simulated faction-on-faction combat in paint, I'd appreciate it.  In the above you can see I just kick out popups for deaths in combat.  I was thinking of having three columns with the left and right just listing the people participating from each team.  When someone dies their name turns gray or something.  Center could be used as a pre-drawn picture of the battlefield so you know what kind of terrain you are fighting on?  For now the player isn't part of the battle so you are just watching how it played out... I guess you may never be a part of it since you will likely teleport to the area of combat and actually fight it out when you can eventually tag along with your companions.

For the simulation the most important values at the moment:
-advantage, increases/decreases initiative roll to simulate having a better defensive position on getting ambushed
-best skill name/value, for each npc... determines overall combat power and attacks
-dodge, determines if the npc avoids getting murdered
-combat power, determines when one force attempts to retreat from the other

Values that may be nice to look at:
-primary weapon for each NPC
-where the battle is taking place
-what terrain the battle is taking place on
-faction for each NPC (your companions are either NONE or Your Faction... not Tacoma Commune, they are simply assisting them)
-rewards/experience for combat?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Kevin Granade on May 24, 2015, 11:36:31 PM
First version of the Commune is merged, no extra-fancy mission interface yet, but it does have the new commune that you can build from a couple of guys standing around in a barn into a small frontier town.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: DeWolf on May 26, 2015, 06:22:20 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/luGUuwA.gif)
If anyone wants to draw a draft for a basic interface for simulated faction-on-faction combat in paint, I'd appreciate it.  In the above you can see I just kick out popups for deaths in combat.  I was thinking of having three columns with the left and right just listing the people participating from each team.  When someone dies their name turns gray or something.  Center could be used as a pre-drawn picture of the battlefield so you know what kind of terrain you are fighting on?  For now the player isn't part of the battle so you are just watching how it played out... I guess you may never be a part of it since you will likely teleport to the area of combat and actually fight it out when you can eventually tag along with your companions.

For the simulation the most important values at the moment:
-advantage, increases/decreases initiative roll to simulate having a better defensive position on getting ambushed
-best skill name/value, for each npc... determines overall combat power and attacks
-dodge, determines if the npc avoids getting murdered
-combat power, determines when one force attempts to retreat from the other

Values that may be nice to look at:
-primary weapon for each NPC
-where the battle is taking place
-what terrain the battle is taking place on
-faction for each NPC (your companions are either NONE or Your Faction... not Tacoma Commune, they are simply assisting them)
-rewards/experience for combat?
So this is your vision of what would happen during a mission? At first I thought the gif would be a simulation of say you use a two way radio one of the factions if a group of merchants and this gives you an idea how long till they get there.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on May 26, 2015, 07:04:46 AM
Quote
So this is your vision of what would happen during a mission? At first I thought the gif would be a simulation of say you use a two way radio one of the factions if a group of merchants and this gives you an idea how long till they get there.

Using the two-way radios to communicate with your companions that are on mission wouldn't be hard to implement but there isn't much need for it yet.  The simulation that I was highlighting is just the combat aspect.  Instead of spitting out debug messages I used popups till we get some kind of UI suggested/designed to keep track of the relevant information.  As far as the caravan's go, they'll either be scheduled (Monday/Friday or 1st and 8th of a season) or when the faction has a trade need and sufficient time has passed since the last one.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Bumpkin on May 29, 2015, 04:10:28 AM
I think I finally found an outpost (silo, barn, garage, lot, ranch) but nobody seems to be in it. Are some uninhabited or could this be because I dialed back my dynamic NPC spawns to 0.05? I kinda assumed the outpost folks would be static spawned.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on May 29, 2015, 04:46:35 AM
You're good.  The ranch is populated (and revealed on the map) through missions from the refugee center.  It should be the 3rd mission from the merchant at the window now.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Bumpkin on May 29, 2015, 04:53:34 AM
Ah, so I need to find a refugee center too? I hope nobody minds that I've smashed up some of the furniture in here for crafting, lol.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Bumpkin on May 30, 2015, 04:09:42 AM
Found a refugee center in a new game and got to the ranch quest but whenever I accept it the game crashes. I debug-menu'd reveal map and there's no outpost anywhere in the genned world, could that be the problem?

edit ; explored off the edge of the map to gen a new section and used reveal-map to ensure there's a ranch there but still crashing on accept.

Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name:   APPCRASH
  Application Name:   cataclysm-tiles.exe
  Application Version:   0.0.0.0
  Application Timestamp:   0c387360
  Fault Module Name:   cataclysm-tiles.exe
  Fault Module Version:   0.0.0.0
  Fault Module Timestamp:   0c387360
  Exception Code:   c0000005
  Exception Offset:   0078ca24
  OS Version:   6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Locale ID:   3081
  Additional Information 1:   0a9e
  Additional Information 2:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
  Additional Information 3:   0a9e
  Additional Information 4:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on June 01, 2015, 03:14:49 PM
I'll catch the error but it shouldn't happen in a normal map.  The ranch is given a 100% chance to spawn but won't if it can't find a suitable site in x number of tries.  Did you change the default city size to a much larger number?  I've never had it not spawn on a normal map.  It can only search the map that the refugee center is located in... unless there have been new functions added to overmapbuffer.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: vache on June 01, 2015, 05:52:18 PM
That would be great if it generated overmaps until it made an outpost if it couldn't find one in the existing overmap.  It would be a good way to force the player to move and explore, but I don't know how hard it would be to make overmapbuffer do that, or worse, how much it would delay things for the user if it could find one in the first couple generated overmaps.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: jokermatt999 on June 01, 2015, 07:10:36 PM
Yeah the way overmaps currently work, you aren't guaranteed to get a spawn. That's why you may need to generate a few for a lab or sheltered start.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: vache on June 01, 2015, 07:34:17 PM
Even with a guaranteed minimum spawn it won't work if there are other specials with a guaranteed minimum and the game doesn't select enough valid locations to place them all.  The placement system could be a fair bit smarter, right now it divides the map into a grid then picks a point inside the grid and then checks for the available specials.  It should select a required special and then find a valid location for it ideally.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Sirbab on June 06, 2015, 01:32:39 AM
Do we have an ETA for when part 2's PR will go through? I'm waiting for this to merge to start playing again.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: DooMJake on June 18, 2015, 08:00:28 PM
Is this on the experimental right now?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: John Candlebury on June 18, 2015, 08:48:06 PM
Yep a lot of it is in there, although some parts are still missing
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: mwswimmer on July 15, 2015, 05:56:36 PM
How do i get the ranch quest im i the latest experimental and it just has me do missions for a representative... do i have to install something? if so how do i do it
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Boy1der on July 15, 2015, 06:58:07 PM
The quest happens after you complete the first 2 NPC quests from the merchant, it should prompt you to do something.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: mwswimmer on July 15, 2015, 07:03:14 PM
Which merchant or do you mean the representative
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: GreatTuna on July 15, 2015, 07:51:12 PM
Merchant. The guy\gal lives near the entrance, behind the thick glass wall. You can talk to them and buy\sell stuff and take quests.
If you see the arsonist, then merchant is nearby.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: StopSignal on July 15, 2015, 11:21:39 PM
Sorry for this post, i just want the thread in my feed. This is really interesting!
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: mwswimmer on July 16, 2015, 11:04:27 AM
When can i give orders, like have the people grow food and the likes
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Azrad on July 17, 2015, 01:49:20 PM
Once you get a few missions done for the outpost, more NPCs will show up and some of them have things that they can do for you.

Here's the ones I remember encountering:
-can pay a guy to chop up logs for you
-can pay one guy for construction training, but you're probably better off finding an NPC that can teach you or a book
-have them plant seeds for you (need to purchase some land first, has a max limit of seeds you can plant)
-have a nurse heal you or your NPCs
-doctor that can add or remove bionics with a usually better chance of success
-bartender. buying drinks can supply you with infinite glass bottles.
-scavenging missions, NPC assigned can find random items.

There's a few other missions that you can assign NPCs to. Scavenging and escorting merchants/supplies has a risk of the NPC dying, or some combat training.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Metekillot on September 12, 2015, 10:03:00 PM
Is acidia kill?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Kevin Granade on September 12, 2015, 10:22:02 PM
Acidia has regularly appeared and disappeared, this is nothing new.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Womble on September 15, 2015, 10:09:15 PM
I found this content pretty engaging, but - the motor request stumped me and I ended up going off to do terrible things with mutagen rather than help the refugees.  If Tacoma wants two electric motors (not too large, not too small) as I suspect they do, it'd help if the game text specified that.

More positively, it'd be cool if they could set up a facility for bio-diesel.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Gothmos on September 16, 2015, 04:02:17 AM
Literally made an account to ask the questionWombles posted just before. "Motors" is very unspecific. I first tried 2 random motors taken from vehicles down the road, nope. Then remembered he said something about getting power form a truck battery, so tried small electric motors (since i could craft them), nope. Tried 1 cylinder small engines, nope and large electric motors, nope. All that's left is finding one more normal electric motor before i give up on these guys (which i would be sad to do, this is pretty cool).

p.s. I've been here since 0.9 lol.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Xfin on September 16, 2015, 11:17:55 AM
After getting to the end of 1 of the quest chains, is it intended that the dr installs bionics without..deleting the cbm? now bankrupted but biopower>cash (sadly this world was infected with the tankmod's when it broke the NPC quests sigh...)
(also lost a few npcs due to random zombies popping up (only statics spawns there.. have no idea how they keep showing up)

Motors are kinda simple to get if you find a solar car.

it not like he says he directly said he wanted small or large ones so (though 1 person guessed he wanted gas engines..somehow...)
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Gothmos on September 16, 2015, 11:48:05 AM
They're real simple if you know what kind of motor he wants. Does he want normal electric motors? Why can't he take these spare enhanced electric motors >.>

Edit: As it hasn't been stated clearly yet, yes he does want just "electric motors". If you can only find large ones, try looking at electric motorbikes.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: detahramet on November 02, 2015, 02:13:55 AM
Alright, I'm dumb, how do I get this to run?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Shopkeeper on November 02, 2015, 03:24:33 PM
Alright, I'm dumb, how do I get this to run?
It's included in the experimentals, just enable static NPCs at world generation. After that you just have to find and do a couple quests at the refugee center and those will lead into you helping the outpost get started.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Jinxed44 on April 28, 2017, 02:21:31 AM
Hey, sorry to necro this, but just wanted to say a few things:

1st, and most importantly, I don't know if the creator will even see this but I've gotten through the Foreman questline and this section of the game has lasted longer and remained more interesting than some high-end console games. Art is an experience, and this has been one I will remember for a long time.
So thank you very much for making this!

2. The final quest for every NPC in the outpost loops for the final quest, which is keeping the greenhouse from being constructed, after completing the related foreman quest
This makes me sad. Is there a way to fix this?

3. Right now end game-content, like the vault (?) is REALLY well hidden and basically requires forum participation to encounter (or amazing luck). The outpost is connected to the refugee center via questline, which avoids this. It would be nice to add a traveler NPC to drop hints for things like the vault after the outpost town is significantly constructed, say at the tavern (have not completed tavern questline yet, may be the case?). Just what to look out for. I didn't know about irradiated wanders indicating a vault until reading this (and I actually have a location like that in game!!).
I am now very excited to go see that knowing it is from the same author, but people not active on the forums may never find whatever this gem is.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Halosammy on July 31, 2017, 03:57:16 AM
The bartender has failed to appear twice in a row now. Is this a glitch, or does messing with the debug mutations pertaining to the bartender cause them not to spawn?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: acidia on July 31, 2017, 08:42:34 AM
I don't have access to the code at the moment but I believe the mutation is used to track if a bartender has ever been spawned, preventing you from replacing him if he dies.  Remove the mutation and complete the quest.  Should work?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Halosammy on July 31, 2017, 10:41:28 PM
I don't have access to the code at the moment but I believe the mutation is used to track if a bartender has ever been spawned, preventing you from replacing him if he dies.  Remove the mutation and complete the quest.  Should work?
Worked.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Halosammy on August 01, 2017, 01:00:03 AM
And now it doesn't work again. I didn't even touch the [Carries Alchohol] traits on the debug menu this time. I'm just going to wait until 2018, and see if things smooth out.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Halosammy on August 11, 2017, 10:24:52 AM
I did some digging to see what triggers the bug, and I noticed that getting the quest chain as early as possible using the debug menu helps the bartender spawn. I don't know if it has to do with map generation, but there's something to go on.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: F.Society on August 11, 2017, 10:40:45 AM
What is this and how do I get it?
Is this some sort of mod pack?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Halosammy on August 11, 2017, 08:38:23 PM
What is this and how do I get it?
Is this some sort of mod pack?
No, it's a fully integrated content package. It comes with the core game.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: F.Society on August 12, 2017, 07:16:07 AM
Much appreciated sammy.
Guessing this is the same as the national gaurd camp?
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Halosammy on August 12, 2017, 09:43:14 PM
Much appreciated sammy.
Guessing this is the same as the national gaurd camp?
Not quite. The camp is still an optional mod that can be disabled from world-gen. The outpost can't be removed with the interface because it's already been thoroughly tested and integrated. My problem is that something is clashing with the script that spawns the bartender.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Halosammy on August 18, 2017, 08:39:50 AM
I did more bug-hunting. While I couldn't find out what stops the bartender from spawning, I've found out where the barber keeps disappearing off to. The barber somehow spawns by himself in a different ranch (I found this completely by chance). Someone who knows the code better than I do should find out what's going on.
Title: Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
Post by: Justin Case on August 21, 2017, 06:38:18 AM
How about caravan escort missions? 4-5 npcs need to be escorted to a refugee center, survival outpost etc. The outpost should also have a market, general store, where items could be bought, traded. I like really this idea!