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Messages - Coolthulhu

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1
Thnks for that, I can just ignore this now.

Amazing fucking reply there. Is that the shittiest you've got or am I going to get even more disappointed in a moment?

2
Most encumbering item in layer/body part is exempt. Items with 0 or 1 encumbrance are still treated as 2 encumbrance for purposes of this penalty.

3
Seriously? Making it arbitrary is somehow an improvement?

Yes
That would avoid the arbitrary huge concentration of detail that comes into splitting guns into categories - which is devoid from all the other skills - and thus make edge cases less jarring.
If detail can't be uniformly maintained, exceptions multiply and their severity grows.

We don't have this much detail for melee weapons, which are much more central to the game - for as long as using a gun requires consuming potentially expensive ammo, and as long as there are many weak targets that still pose danger, melee will always be the default.

Quote
good luck turning it into a consistent system the player can actually understand and interact with in a meaningful way.
The core of the skill system is that player actons trigger practice which improves skills, how are you going to map player decisions to those categories?

All of the skill type xp could be scaled by hit grade or at least by a check if a target was hit, to avoid tedious optimal grinding and encourage learning by doing.
As for the individual skills:
  • Recoil control is easiest: gained whenever recoil is gained by firing a gun. More xp for guns with more recoil and for bursts, less for perfectly aiming.
  • Accuracy at un-aimed shot gained whenever a shot is below certain aim percentage. More xp for shorter aiming.
  • Aim speed gained whenever an aimed shot is made. More xp for more aiming and also more xp for using guns that can be aimed fast.
  • Accuracy at perfect aim gained whenever a well aimed shot is executed properly. Starts at certain aim percentage and goes up from there. More xp for shots at long range and accurate weapons.

Aim speed and accuracy at perfect aim could optionally be merged into "aiming".

Unaimed shots would always only train recoil control and snapshot, shots made at sensible aim level (aiming against incoming hulk) would train mostly aim speed and recoil control, sniper shots would train aim speed and accuracy. Using sniper rifles would train less aim speed (due to slow aiming), but more accuracy (due to gun accuracy) and range.
So every action would give results according to what player needs to execute said action well.

To make snapshots more meaningful, some weapons could have naturally lower starting recoil. For example, pistol-grip-less rifles (as in IVAN CHESNOKOV copypasta). This would give a good reason not to slap every possible gunmod on the gun, without arbitrary restrictions like the volume penalty that was removed.
Snapshots/point shooting/instinctive firing is grossly underrepresented in the game at the moment, despite it fitting perfectly for close range gun use.

4
Other Games / Re: What are you currently playing ? (Mandatory topic)
« on: August 04, 2017, 05:30:27 AM »
Lethis Path of progress - clone of Zeus/Pharaoh/Emperor series, but with more crashes and horrible Tumblr artstyle and descriptions
Settlers 6 - probably the least fun I've had with a Settlers game
Tangledeep - roguelike with generic SNES RPG artstyle and abilities that manage to be less interesting than "fireball" and "heal"

5
Penalty for wearing items in the same layer and body part. For example, hoodie + coat.

6
Better ranged weapon skill improves:
  • Aim speed
  • Move cost of shooting
  • Reload speed
  • Recoil control

7
We don't have "diesel engine maintenance", "maintaining katana blade without wrecking it", "constructing flamethrowers" or "connecting engine to drivetrain" skills.
Those are "mechanics".

We don't have "polishing wood", "chopping wood", "making sure wood doesn't warp from moisture", "machining gunmods", "welding vehicle armor", "barrelmaking" or "smithing" skills.
Those are "fabrication".

We also don't have "swinging a sword", "swinging a club", "swinging an axe" skills.

There are very good reasons for the above to be the case.

Guns are a massive exception here, being the only skill type to be split so incredibly finely and without good order.
And there are many counterexamples for this split, such as laser weaponry (uses skill of nearest gun shape), rivtech shotgun pistol (uses shotgun cartridge, pistol skill), all rivtech guns (their ammo sets them apart further from cased ammo guns than pistols are from shotguns when it comes to maintenance), crossbows, guns that use different caliber than most of their category.

The maintenance argument isn't decent. It's very shallow and breaks down hard if actually considered.

8
ZoneWizard, this was like the least helpful piece of "criticism" I've read in a long time.
The only case you are making is "they are different internally", from which in no way follows "they should be very strongly separated into individual skills so that using one gun doesn't even by accident teach you how to use any other".

You're making a lot of assertions ("it will all be ruined", "if you knew you'd agree with me", "obviously a bad idea"), but have very little meaningful arguments to support that and fail to address any points made against strict separation of weapons into categories.

9
Makes me wonder what your character feels about taking a shower.

Actually really happy, provided you remove your clothing first and don't actually wear something that feels like a sloshing cocoon of wet rags.

10
Why can't we just use the same code that is used for farming?

Well, technically we could.
I don't like the farming code, but it could be repurposed for trees.

11
The Garage - Bug Reports and Technical Help / Re: Lag / Choppy
« on: August 02, 2017, 09:45:57 PM »
Try updating. There was one seriously laggy version not long ago.

12
The math is weird. Cars do take wheels into account.

To balance it, I'd need someone to list a bunch of cars that should be pushable and some limits - cars that shouldn't be pushable.

13
Do you have experimental 3D vision on?
Just the vision - it is seriously unfinished. Other z-level code is fine, but vision is very inefficient.

14
Currently we have the following ranged skills:
  • Marksmanship
  • Pistol
  • SMG
  • Rifle
  • Shotgun
  • Launchers
  • Archery
  • Throwing (not exactly a ranged weapon skill, but shares a role)

8 ranged skills is way too many.
This results in the following problems:

  • Pigeonholing, like with the crossbows or miniguns, is more jarring than if the categories weren't so strict.
  • Total separation of most firearm learning. Is hunting rifle all that different from a shotgun loaded with slugs? I'm certain shotgun is more similar to rifle than rifle to minigun.
  • Arbitrarily solved edge cases. Like that rivtech shotgun which is a pistol due to small size.
  • Weapon balance suffers. Some of the weapon types have only limited uses and simply can't compete for XP with the better ones.
  • Weapon skill gain for some types is cheap (laser rifles/pistols, pneumatic rifle), while others are permanently kept low due to expensive ammo (shotguns).
  • Heavily modded weapons retain their categories, even after the addition of stock and burst fire turns a pistol into SMG except by name and type.

The heavily specific categories are necessarily arbitrary at the edges, as not every gun fits neatly into exactly one of the categories. On a side note, the same problem exists in real life, with legislature.

Some ideas of fixing those problems without introducing worse ones:
  • Rifle and shotgun merged. This is pretty much a no-brainer, the only reason not to do that would be doing a different skill merge.
  • SMG merged into either rifle or pistol. Merging into pistol would be better for balance, but rifle would probably be more muh realism, considering SMG is classified as a long arm.
  • Caliber based: pistols and SMGs merged into small guns, rest of firearms into big guns, launchers merged with archery into misc guns. Sci-fi guns possibly as a new category.
  • Drop all skills and keep just marksmanship.
  • Total rework of ranged skills. Instead of weapon type, different skills cover: accuracy at perfect aim, starting accuracy before aiming, aiming speed, and recoil control.

15
I would like it if players could plant trees if automatic regrowth is a bit tricky.

The regrowth isn't as hard as tree growing from "young" to "adult".

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