Author Topic: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?  (Read 1473 times)

Offline Subhazard

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2016, 12:50:21 AM »
Check yours.

It was made by iD software.

It was published by Bethesda.






(Also how dare you)

Offline Pthalocy

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2016, 06:38:51 PM »
Okay, so lesson learned: When Beth lets another company do the heavy lifting a lot of the stupid crap gets filtered out. DOOM is a fantastic example, since it uses iD's choice of physics engine and doesn't bother with the radiant questy open world. Tight gaming vision.
Oh hey! Bethesda was publisher for New Vegas, but left the actual work to Obsidian. Who handled the medium incredibly well and many people still love NV best.

Perhaps Beth needs to be duct-taped to the director's chair so someone else can provide actors, writers and film crew for the rest of their franchise.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 06:41:57 PM by Pthalocy »
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Offline Valpo

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2016, 10:34:15 PM »
I like all fallout games.


Offline Subhazard

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2016, 07:19:43 AM »
Okay, so lesson learned: When Beth lets another company do the heavy lifting a lot of the stupid crap gets filtered out. DOOM is a fantastic example, since it uses iD's choice of physics engine and doesn't bother with the radiant questy open world. Tight gaming vision.
Oh hey! Bethesda was publisher for New Vegas, but left the actual work to Obsidian. Who handled the medium incredibly well and many people still love NV best.

Perhaps Beth needs to be duct-taped to the director's chair so someone else can provide actors, writers and film crew for the rest of their franchise.

Okay, it's not just 'do the heavy lifting' it's literally 'make the game'

A publisher handles marketing, distribution, and funding, they have little to no input in the creative process of the making the game.  They're the whip and the shopkeeper.

Offline Pthalocy

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2016, 02:50:54 AM »
I understand that, though my wordchoice was admittedly too generalized. A good distinction to make all the same.
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Offline wad67

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2016, 07:31:58 AM »
Didn't really like fallout 4, could not get into it. Didn't finish it.
Fallout 3 was amazing when it came out, seems dated now though.
Fallout: NV was probably the best in the series, better once they patched it.
Played Fallout 1 & 2, never finished them

My father has a copy of ESO, I played it for a few hours and quickly became bored with that.
Never ended up finishing skyrim, couldn't get into it.

Beat oblivion multiple times, didn't mind it. Some of the DLC was cool.
Beaten morrowind countless times, Had it on xbox as a wee lad.
Daggerfall was fairly cool, especially with mods.
Didn't bother with arena.



Offline Litppunk

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2016, 11:42:09 PM »
Oblivion was fun until I realized just how much time I was spending grinding the Oblivian, and spending basically 0 time in the full world.

Skyrim was amazing, until I realized what was going on with the leveling, then I couldn't bring myself to pick it back up again. Which at first made me question if I just didn't like it because mob mentality, but the in the end its more because a world where all the leveling gets me nowhere because the world levels with me is just kills the fun.
A punk is a smoldering stick used for lighting firework fuses, dynamite and other fused items. This makes it the source of raging fires and destruction, and the ignition of beautiful displays of pyrotechnics and many beneficial flames as well a pranksters tool.
hey.... whats that hissing sound.

Offline Shopkeeper

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2016, 03:05:26 PM »
Skyrim was amazing, until I realized what was going on with the leveling, then I couldn't bring myself to pick it back up again. Which at first made me question if I just didn't like it because mob mentality, but the in the end its more because a world where all the leveling gets me nowhere because the world levels with me is just kills the fun.

You my friend need Requiem - The Roleplaying Overhaul.

Also, I never realized how much the leveled world in Bethesda games have turned me off them. It wasn't that bad in F3, though the bullshit triumvirate of Albino Radscorpion/Feral Ghoul Reaver/Super Mutant Overlord with several thousand hitpoints each still leave a bad taste in my mouth. But F4's addition of legendary enemies and the Borderlands meme tier randomized loot just rubbed it in.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 08:36:19 PM by Shopkeeper »

Offline Litppunk

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2016, 04:18:06 PM »
Can I DL it to the Xbox?
A punk is a smoldering stick used for lighting firework fuses, dynamite and other fused items. This makes it the source of raging fires and destruction, and the ignition of beautiful displays of pyrotechnics and many beneficial flames as well a pranksters tool.
hey.... whats that hissing sound.

Offline Pthalocy

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2016, 06:47:04 PM »
Oblivion was fun until I realized just how much time I was spending grinding the Oblivian, and spending basically 0 time in the full world.

Skyrim was amazing, until I realized what was going on with the leveling, then I couldn't bring myself to pick it back up again. Which at first made me question if I just didn't like it because mob mentality, but the in the end its more because a world where all the leveling gets me nowhere because the world levels with me is just kills the fun.

First thing I do in all beth games is de-level all mob and loot spawns. Does it ruin a sense of 'progression'? Yeah. But over the years I've found I really do like a wild, random world where I can luck out with some good finds early, and garbage finds late. I used an overhaul called Requiem the same overhaul Shopkeep has suggested! Hah! - which made combat...rather more like dark souls id you calibrated it as such. I don't think they've packaged older skyrim stuff for xbox, no. SSE might prove differently.

I realize admitting a game I love needs modifying by default is like an admission of the game's inadequacy, and in a way I can't refute that. However, I greatly enjoy working with the modding community much the same way I like hangin' around here - it's just that Bethesda has more money to throw at a graphical interface. Different sandbox for me!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 06:49:43 PM by Pthalocy »
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Offline Litppunk

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2016, 06:55:42 PM »
unfortunately I don't have a comp I can run something like that on right now. If I can get Requiem for Xbox 360 let me know, Id love to try it.
A punk is a smoldering stick used for lighting firework fuses, dynamite and other fused items. This makes it the source of raging fires and destruction, and the ignition of beautiful displays of pyrotechnics and many beneficial flames as well a pranksters tool.
hey.... whats that hissing sound.

Offline Deez Nutz

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2016, 07:36:02 PM »
snip!
>Snippity-doo-da, snippity-day!<
Yes, pretty much every Beth or Beth-related game I've ever played I've had to mod heavily, I think the reason is that most of these games are just so huge that the devs simply can't finish everything in time for the deadlines, so they are forced to rely on the modding community to finish them. 

Lately though it seems that Beth isn't merely relying on the fans to just finish the games, but to actually MAKE the games! :(

Offline baldamundo

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2016, 10:21:59 PM »
Morrowind was overall a big improvement on Daggerfall, even though it regressed on some of the more avant-garde features Daggerfall pioneered. Oblivion was pretty bland and mediocre. Skyrim (while I still prefer Morrowind personally) drew together all the best features of the entire TES series. Whether you play TES for the graphics, the art-style, the plot, the world-building, the gameplay, the modding - whatever your angle - Skyrim was a huge step forward compared to Oblivion in pretty much every way. About the only relative downsides are that the expansions were kind of a mess and the stealth questlines weren't the best.

Yes, sure they've made compromises that aren't precisely to everyone's preferred tastes (i.e. hardcore Morrowind fanatics like me will never be happy!), but if you're arguing that the TES games are just unequivocally getting worse, you're talking total nonsense. Daggerfall and Morrowind did things that Skyrim doesn't, but Skyrim also does a hell of a lot of stuff a hell of a lot better than them, and it does basically everything better than Oblivion did.


Fallout I'm a bit more puzzled by, though. Genuinely don't understand all the hate Fallout 4 has gotten - imo it's easily the best thing Bethesda have published since Morrowind. It's arguably the first time they've had well thought out, well-written, coherent and thematic writing since Morrowind, it's the first time since Daggerfall that they've had any branching in the main questline, let alone branching as diverse and complex and well done as what Fallout 4 has, and it's the first time they've ever even bothered trying to have properly fleshed out NPC companions with actual personalities and stories of their own.

And sure, the settlement building is copied from a mod, but why is that supposed to be a bad thing? I think it's absolutely amazing and really refreshing and great that for a triple A mainstream title they've not only taken onboard features from one of the most innovative, creative and technically challenging mods out there, but they've incorporated it as a core gameplay feature and actually (like on balance imo at least) done a really good job of it. I definitely think there's a strong argument for Fallout 4 certainly being Bethesda's best game since Morrowind if not their best game ever (and I say that not because I'm a big FO4 fanboy, but because these games are balancing acts, and the things i might prefer about e.g. Morrowind or Daggerfall also came with huge drawbacks of their own).

Like, sure there are bits and pieces here and there that need fixing, but that's why modding exists.

The only two major, consistent criticisms I've seen are about the lack of nasty options (which is fair enough, although I think the latest DLC is supposed to be sort of an answer to that?) and the fact that the player character's voiced. And while I can understand people not being wild about the player voicing, I don't see why it's such a dealbreaker, especially if you look at it in context. Back in Daggerfall there was basically no voice acting whatsoever, then in Morrowind NPCs just got idle chatter and combat shouts that were identical for entire races. Then the player character started grunting and shouting as well, while we got mostly atrocious full voice acting for all NPCs - at its worst in Oblivion where you had the constant hideous spectacle of NPCs with exactly the same terrible voice acting constantly having the same stupid fucking conversations with each other again and again. A lot of us weren't convinced that this whole "more voice acting everywhere" thing was actually an improvement, but nowadays people think the lack of voice acting makes Daggerfall or Morrowind feel ridiculously dated.

So again, I'm not saying the voice acting thing isn't a problem, but it's clearly something that has its benefits as well as its drawbacks. And like, just as an aside, I've never seen people get similarly pissed about the PC being voiced in any other game, so I'm not sure I exactly understand the issue here specifically.


Quote
yes, pretty much every Beth or Beth-related game I've ever played I've had to mod heavily, I think the reason is that most of these games are just so huge that the devs simply can't finish everything in time for the deadlines, so they are forced to rely on the modding community to finish them. 

I mean, I think the actual point here is that these games are so vast and so all encompassing that they are never finished and can never be finished. Daggerfall, Morrowind, Skyrim, Fallouts 1 through 4 - these are all absolutely enormous games by any standards, but they all have so much that was planned but never made it.

But for an illustration of what I mean about them being impossible to finish, look at the Tamriel Rebuilt project for Morrowind. It's a mod project that's been in development for about a decade and a half now. What they've released so far fully doubles the already enormous landmass of Morrowind. And it's not just empty space - it's richly detailed, beautiful, hand-crafted stuff, most of it filled with carefully thought out characters, dialogue and quests. And last I checked the mod isn't even nearly half finished still. And bear in mind, their idea of finished is "as full of characters, quests, etc as the locations of vanilla Morrowind". But as the modding of Morrowind has shown, there is so much more detail and richness you can add on top of that still.

And this is just the part of the Tamriel Rebuilt project focused on showing us the rest of the province of Morrowind. The original ambition was, as the name suggests, to rebuild the whole of Tamriel - and the province of Morrowind only makes up about a ninth of that continent's landmass. There is no finishing a game like this. Details could keep on being added forever.

In fact, in that respect it's exactly like Cataclysm! Only because Cataclysm's open source and using the technology and development cycle that it's on, you guys actually can keep on adding to it forever! Thanks to capitalism and all the rest of it, Bethesda unfortunately can't do that.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 10:26:57 PM by baldamundo »

Offline SpadeDraco

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2016, 12:47:49 PM »
It's (reffering to Fallout 4) arguably the first time they've had well thought out, well-written, coherent and thematic writing since Morrowind.

You had me up until you said this. Please tell me you're being sarcastic. The bloody Twilight Saga was a more coherent narrative than Fallout 4! Writing is easily Bethesda's weakest talent. One look at  Fallout: New Vegas (which made Fallout 3 inferior in every aspect, and still puts Fallout 4 to shame in every department except the gunplay) should inform everyone in their right mind that Bethesda shouldn't be allowed to make Fallout games.

Offline ApatheticExcuse

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Re: Anyone else feel like Bethesda games are slowly swirling down the toilet?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2016, 03:24:12 PM »
I don't know why 4 gets so much hate. 3 was easily the worst game in the series, including BoS. It wasn't even a particularly good game by normal standards, let alone Fallout standards.

4's biggest weakness is that it doesn't add anything both interesting and new. It's still fun, just not "great".
Sometimes I think I'd have an easier time surviving Cataclysm IRL than in game.