Author Topic: Changing intelligence to... something more  (Read 3811 times)

Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2016, 07:55:41 PM »
You weren't back when I wrote that.
OK, it's closer to half a year than a year.
But most of your commits (as reported by github) from that time are merges. Implementing forgetting would essentially be another mechanic on top of map memory. Possibly a lot of work, depending on scope.
By your commit history, it was pretty safe to assume that, at that time, you were quite busy with things not related to the game.

Map memory would have to start of eidetic just because that's the simplest way to implement it without hacks. Without someone to implement the option to forget, it would stay at that level (possibly locked behind an option).

Offline Logrin

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2016, 01:55:04 AM »
Aside from my earlier suggestion the only reasonable way I can conceive of INT being a game long priority is if certain recipes were INT gated. This could be done one of two ways (and one need not exclude the other)

*The no doubt unpopular pick is to state quite frankly if someone just isn't clever enough to build their own guns, make their own medicine and tailor survivor gear. These things don't necessarily require you to be a genius though, so it's more to deter dropping it down to nothing and still expecting to be able to make mutagen.

*The second option would be to have special high-intel recipes (at or beyond ALPHA levels) that give players fancy toys or new ways to play should they have managed to push what must have been an initially high IQ even further

Thoughts?

Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2016, 12:40:17 PM »
One thing I don't like about INT-gating recipes is that it would require a special case for NPC crafting: whereas all other recipes could be learned and used just fine, the high-INT ones would require both the crafter and the player to have high INT. Just so that the crafter can be ordered to craft a high-INT item.

But then, NPC crafting is future plans.

Offline Hookleg

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2016, 03:47:34 PM »
Just a thought,

Maybe Int could be used to create a % modifier to decrease the time to perform all non-physical tasks.  Int already reduces reading time.  I don't think it would be a stretch to see how a intelligent person could craft and repair items faster.  Another possibility could be making very high Int give a small chance of an automatic do over on an failure roll on attacking, shooting crafting, first aid, installing bionics, driving.  I am new to CDDA and have never gotten past mid-game so i do not know if my suggestions would effect the end game at all.

For my first month playing i was on the stable and Int decreased skill rust.

Offline pisskop

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2016, 06:15:15 PM »
Going to again reiterate that INT should represent all mental fortitude, and that it should be a 'booksmarts' stat whereas awareness or perception is a 'streetsmarts' or quick adaptative stat.

INT should encompass willpower and focus, while per should be intuition or what it is now.

So, yes I approve of a modifyer taken off all crafting or reading or et al for int and per, but Im also okay splitting or renaming int to something else.


The two (per and int) can share the mental/spiritual aspect while dex/str are the physical.  Its not a bad choice to head into.

Offline Logrin

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2016, 09:02:55 PM »
Another factor that's not ready for implementation by a long shot but could be put on the roadmap would be for INT to be the single most important stat when it comes to the logistics of running your own faction. Effecting:

*How fast you teach/can be taught
*How effectively you organize your workforce, I.E. the yield of NPC tasks you assign that are abstracted or take place outside the reality bubble. Farming, mining, assigning construction. Etc.
etc.

I'd keep listing possibilities by they'd start to sound more and more like another suggestion best put to its own topic.

....

I believe someone already mentioned the possibility of quality modifiers to crafting. I think that idea is just grand. Even if we don't decide Joe Blow is too dumb to make his own mutagen/CBMs/Nuclear Powered Gizmos/etc surely it is fair for them to get slapped with a FAULTY or BUNGLED flag that effects their base stats? Like armor being more cumbersome/less protective, guns jamming, mutagens having worse odds and radiation leaking where appropriate.

....

Just had an idea that works independent of skill rust for high int as a boon. Every so many points of INT could be a milestone that lets you tag a skill for CONTEMPLATION. Skills your character is pondering for the sake of improvement. Activities like reading, construction, repairing and crafting give you ample opportunity to take a thin on the matter and marginally improve. The higher your INT the more you gain from learning this way and the higher a skill can improve in the absence of practical experience.

....

A possibility I think was mentioned earlier. Have INT push MAX skill level higher every so many points over average intel. Aside from the slight advantage having 11 or 12 over 10 in a skill might add this is how you could intel gate recipes. Have some really cool stuff take 11 or 12 in a skill. Since you can't just drug yourself up over a skill threshold. This stops players from popping some pills to cheese the system. Likewise you could have int BELOW average LOWER max skill levels at the same rate. A sufficiently dumb fellow only able to rise to 9, 8 or god forbid 7. Now that I write this all out, I think this sounds like a pretty good way of doing it.

Offline Vastin

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2016, 09:44:50 PM »
If push comes to shove and Int just doesn't seem to be going anywhere as a stat, there's nothing that says it can't just be collapsed into Per (or vice versa) - which would make it quite a powerful stat. Maybe trim off some of the less significant features of both to even it out a bit.

Three stats is a pretty common 'core' for RPG's and its easy to work with, if the fourth is having trouble sustaining itself in terms of game mechanics.

Offline KliPeH

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2016, 10:19:34 PM »
Another factor that's not ready for implementation by a long shot but could be put on the roadmap would be for INT to be the single most important stat when it comes to the logistics of running your own faction. Effecting:

*How fast you teach/can be taught
*How effectively you organize your workforce, I.E. the yield of NPC tasks you assign that are abstracted or take place outside the reality bubble. Farming, mining, assigning construction. Etc.
etc.
Quote
Just had an idea that works independent of skill rust for high int as a boon. Every so many points of INT could be a milestone that lets you tag a skill for CONTEMPLATION. Skills your character is pondering for the sake of improvement. Activities like reading, construction, repairing and crafting give you ample opportunity to take a thin on the matter and marginally improve. The higher your INT the more you gain from learning this way and the higher a skill can improve in the absence of practical experience.
Quote
A possibility I think was mentioned earlier. Have INT push MAX skill level higher every so many points over average intel. Aside from the slight advantage having 11 or 12 over 10 in a skill might add this is how you could intel gate recipes. Have some really cool stuff take 11 or 12 in a skill. Since you can't just drug yourself up over a skill threshold. This stops players from popping some pills to cheese the system. Likewise you could have int BELOW average LOWER max skill levels at the same rate. A sufficiently dumb fellow only able to rise to 9, 8 or god forbid 7. Now that I write this all out, I think this sounds like a pretty good way of doing it.

I don't usually participate in discussions revolving around skills, stats, multipliers, scaling etc. because I'm not very good with numbers, but I really wanted to take a moment and commend you on coming up with these ideas. It's nothing revolutionary, I'm sure, but it's the first time I read these and I didn't know I wanted something like that in my game until I read them. These are some of the few suggestions I felt I could really agree with in the thread. Well done! I'm sure once the NPC/AI aspect of the game improves you could make great use of your companions, or hostile factions via manipulation, assuming your INT is high enough. Perhaps have a better ability to scale other humans' stats up, or guess what they think of you in a more accurate manner. Teach them skills and recipes more effectively, maybe even have their actual trust value change based on your INT - some personalities might feel more comfortable around somebody who knows what they're doing, others may think you're plotting against them and stay distant. Of course with INT high enough you might even know what kind of personality it is right away! That'd be great.

I'd also like to have both other suggestions implemented actually - the ability to choose a skill to "ponder" upon so that you can improve it at a faster rate, but have some form of limitation on it to balance things out. Have INT decide how many skills you can be "passionate" about, whether it's a single one or two or even three at a time. Perhaps the higher INT is, the shorter the "passion" lock time is after you level up a skill you wished to acquire. As for the other suggestion, I like the fact you're indirectly locking recipes behind levels you cannot reach, which requires some think-ahead and makes INT more viable to pick at char gen. I do think stat limitations are the way to go to "nerf" powerful endgame characters - say, not allow people to go over STR 20, but that's kinda irrelevant so I'll leave it at that.

I believe someone already mentioned the possibility of quality modifiers to crafting. I think that idea is just grand. Even if we don't decide Joe Blow is too dumb to make his own mutagen/CBMs/Nuclear Powered Gizmos/etc surely it is fair for them to get slapped with a FAULTY or BUNGLED flag that effects their base stats? Like armor being more cumbersome/less protective, guns jamming, mutagens having worse odds and radiation leaking where appropriate.

This, on the other hand, could be a bad idea in my opinion. At least if not implemented right, but even then it would be kind of irritating to deal with. Basically, to make the penalty something significant, something people would want to avoid, you'd have to make it a penalty that scales the same way for all the skills inside the skill pool. You'd also need to let people know exact percentages/multiplier values, sort of like you do with "ranged penalty" for PER. If you don't do the latter, you risk the addition being simply annoying to deal with; new players will not understand why a weapon in perfect condition randomly jams, and why they weren't told it would jam in the item/skill description or otherwise. Omitting the former would make the learning curve for the game steeper and memorizing stat thresholds/specific skill penalties that much more of a chore.

Offline Taberone

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2016, 02:30:27 AM »
Doesn't INT provide a higher chance to resist being paralyzed by Monsters with "Fear" attacks? That's one benefit it has, although a tinfoil hat also does the job just fine, too...
Something like 15:00-18:00 is good time to kill the children
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Offline pisskop

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2016, 01:10:35 PM »
tinfoil hats provide a whooping 6 cut prot.

which stops the cut attacks of most vanilla monsters
cut damage can cause bleeding


and bullets deal cut damage.  your tinfoil hat is half a kevlar vest for your face

Offline ZoneWizard

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2017, 10:45:40 PM »
^

So damn hard recreating the wheel of reality isn't it -_-

Creating crap in a fictional realm always is amazing in that it can teach even an average person the importance of learning about our reality. Which also boggles my mind concerning religion....but screw that conversation!

Online Litppunk

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2017, 06:26:56 PM »
Talk about it. I've been trying to decide how to create a universe with magic based physics for a book I want to write. Rewriting the laws of physics based on a system you don't know yet is hard. Making story based around 3 root physics systems that interact and overlap creating infinitely various degrees of interlocking universes may have been a bit overly optimistic core subject to base a first book around.

Meanwhile back on topic....

Doesn't it pair up with focus to multiply learning speeds or something? Could have sworn I saw a bunch of calculations for various things that included int in them. What changed since then, or am I mistaken?
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Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2017, 04:47:21 AM »
Necroing because I still want to implement that. Post 0.D stable, that is.

But now a question:
What would be the new name?

I think it would be pretty fitting to name it "brains".
If not, "mind", "will" or just leave at intelligence but give it new abilities.

Offline BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2017, 01:58:59 PM »
Wits?
Inactive.

If you have questions about my posts, send me a PM.

Offline John Candlebury

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Re: Changing intelligence to... something more
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2017, 02:49:08 PM »
 I would name it:

Intelligence/Willpower

Because it keeps with traditional naming of skills and its descriptive of what the new skill does.