Author Topic: Realistic maps  (Read 1891 times)

Offline ribblle

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Realistic maps
« on: February 18, 2017, 02:18:52 PM »
It would be nice to have a physical map to check, which contains all the detail you'd expect. The current setup makes no sense.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2017, 08:03:15 PM »
Not a very helpful comment, what detail would you expect that isn't present?
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline ribblle

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2017, 08:20:53 PM »
The fog of war is a foolish idea. There's no reason roads should disappear off into a grey sludge, like this.

Most maps cover a larger area then one town, and can still achieve reasonable detail for them. In a evac shelter of all places you'd expect a fairly decent map of the county.

Offline kolsurma

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2017, 10:52:48 PM »
Road maps already exist as an item in game, they fill in the roads (and certain special buildings) on the map screen. Other map types also exist.

Offline ribblle

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2017, 10:57:10 PM »
Good, i think you should start with one. Otherwise you're saying the player has a very selective memory.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2017, 03:29:47 AM »
You're still being uselessly vague, what exctly does, "can still achieve reasonable detail for them" mean?
Also, what does a, "fairly decent map of the county." have on it?
If we had a good system for what the suvivor knows about the surroundings at game start, we'd use it, but we don't have one.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline ribblle

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2017, 02:40:46 PM »
A map of the county is much more believable then a map of one small town. "Reasonable detail" means that that map could cover a much wider area while still noting where say, hospitals are without stretching credibility. Every small town gunshop? Now maybe that's pushing it, but that's what street maps are for.

If we had a good system for what the suvivor knows about the surroundings at game start, we'd use it, but we don't have one.

Good point. However, i think we should start with whats plausible for the default evac center start.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2017, 04:34:46 PM »
"Reasonable detail" means that that map could cover a much wider area while still noting where say, hospitals are without stretching credibility.
Still pointlessly vague, even though you added one detail, hospitals.  So it lists hospitals, soes it list the roads connecting hospitals too? Which ones?
Every small town gunshop? Now maybe that's pushing it, but that's what street maps are for.
Street maps don't have that either, nothing pre-internet even tried to list every business except for phonebooks,

This problem is far more complicated than you're making it out to be, which is why it doesn't have a solution yet, if you don't have a solution, you're not helping.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline ribblle

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 04:59:51 PM »
That's why i'm trying to collaboratively hash out a solution. What's the problem?

When i mentioned hospitals, i'm just trying to say that maps usually list major landmarks and infrastructure. I was wrong about the gunshops, but in Britain you can expect to see post offices and pubs on a ordinance survey map.

I'm not sure if the yellow pages are in the game, but that could help you pinpoint business addresses.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 05:02:39 PM by ribblle »

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2017, 05:22:04 PM »
That's why i'm trying to collaboratively hash out a solution. What's the problem?
The problem is you're making statements like, "The current setup makes no sense." and "The fog of war is a foolish idea.", with no alternative to present and evidently no understanding of the problem.

Just the bare idea, "how about we apply real life maps to the game" is so blindingly obvious that it's not worth mentioning.  The difficult part, and it's actually quite difficult, is coming up with a meaningfull system where maps reveal the right level of detail.  If you have any ideas for how to do that, great, let us have em.  Otherwise you're not helping.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline ribblle

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2017, 05:45:07 PM »
The difficult part, and it's actually quite difficult, is coming up with a meaningfull system where maps reveal the right level of detail.  If you have any ideas for how to do that, great, let us have em.  Otherwise you're not helping.

Do you mean the coding difficulties? Balancing? We obviously have communication difficulties :P.

The suggestion forum isn't for pissing out ideas. It's for putting them forth, examining why they do and don't work and going from there. I'd say it's working as intended.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 05:54:30 PM by ribblle »

Offline §k

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2017, 11:24:54 PM »
If I understand correctly, the suggestion is that a map should reveal the whole region generated when you spawn, like "reveal map"?

Offline ribblle

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2017, 11:46:05 PM »
More or less. You wouldn't expect the same level of detail about the shops in town, which you shouldn't really have at the start of the game either unless it's justified by your starting scenario.

It should be a physical item in your inventory, which seems to have already been done with road maps. It's just a case of making it default or at least a option. Having said that, as starting scenarios expand beyond the evac center (where you might be lost), having a array of lootable maps focusing on different areas (city maps, tour guides, nature trails) would be interesting.

Come to think of it, now that z-levels are being added, elevation could be a useful addition to the map. Inb4 kevin tells me i have no clue.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 12:01:32 AM by ribblle »

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 06:56:59 AM »
More or less. You wouldn't expect the same level of detail about the shops in town, which you shouldn't really have at the start of the game either unless it's justified by your starting scenario.
Let's try this again, just in case.  What exactly do you expect it to reveal?
Come to think of it, now that z-levels are being added, elevation could be a useful addition to the map. Inb4 kevin tells me i have no clue.
Even with z-levels there is no terrain elevation, just multi-floor buildings.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline ribblle

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Re: Realistic maps
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 10:00:53 AM »
the whole region generated

More or less.

You dig?

The whole region, in exactly the level of detail you would expect to find on a New Hampshire map. No more, no less. Shops would remain greyed out until they've been visited or triangulated in the yellow pages.

The difficult part, and it's actually quite difficult, is coming up with a meaningfull system where maps reveal the right level of detail.

Again, what's the difficulty?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:15:01 AM by ribblle »