Author Topic: Subways and Sewers  (Read 1451 times)

Online Azrad

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2017, 08:46:57 AM »
I agree with the others that the underground areas in subway stations and sewers could use more locations. It's pretty much a barren place down there, so there's not much to explore but tunnels and more tunnels.
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Offline Rot

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2017, 11:20:07 AM »
I mostly just use them as a sort of semi-safe inter city travel, allowing me to get to small areas of a huge city without running into too much trouble.

Also I use sewers as a food source when times are lean during the winter.


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Offline secretfire

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2017, 06:46:13 PM »
Sewers became far less interesting when the pirhannas in them got amped up to 11, so to speak. Before that I'd continuously try to live in them because it makes sense for the theme. The warmest place in the winter of a lot of northeastern U.S. cities, if you can't stay in the buildings (for whatever reason) - is going to be the sewers. Honestly, we should probably have more NPCs spawning in them, some cities have homeless people living in them ALREADY - and it seems like a low hanging fruit, so to speak.

I mean, just me, but I'd find a group of survivors in the sewers much more realistic then the ultra-tricked out survivors bases we have right now.

Subways are long, boring ways to get close to starvation. I expect both to get more love at some point, probably if they ever get a min/max setting for cities in worldgen.

THAT BEING SAID - I've had some AWESOME fun in the sewers in old versions. By --- FAR --- my favorite was when one intersected lab on a lab run. It was sealed off by metal grates, and I sawed through them somehow, drawing monsters from the other side (which was appropriate). I then ended up using it as an entrance to the lab and setting up an underground camping site. It was loads of fun.

Most of my sewer runs historically came from starting in the middle of a city/town, or getting stuck in one, and then fleeing into them. Same with the subways.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 06:52:16 PM by secretfire »

Offline pisskop

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2017, 07:17:44 PM »
The most obvious way to make subways more interesting is to add more maintenance rooms and electrical closets.
  then we can also make more intersections, or  at least ensure that there are paths that go out to other cities or major stops.  Ive tried to make the run to the mall, for instance.


The sewers could stand for some dry land somewhere.  Trope or not, we need somewhere for the people to walk/camp on.  We could do with old pipelines that serve as dead-ends, we could make them purposely the shortest route to high traffic areas.  Make them intentionally a good way to avoid the zeds above.


But, Ill tell everyone a little secret about New england right now.  We dont have a single subway outside of like boston.  And the sewers, while many drainage pipe can fit a man crawling or perhaps crouched down uncomfortably, most cannot house a chud

Offline wad67

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2017, 07:58:34 PM »
I'd prefer to have a much larger ungerground. Well, less solid rock and more passageways, rooms, etc.

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Offline StopSignal

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2017, 08:01:16 PM »
We might need also more places to enter/get out of them. If possible, even in the back of some houses or inside public places. Just to have a more strategic approach to use them to avoid enemies and being seen. Right now is "go from this street to this one" and it usually leaves you in everything but a good place.

Offline Sunshine

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2017, 05:21:30 AM »
When you play with a really high spawn rate, sewers and subways become a great ways to get into and out of large cities without fighting huge hordes.  And the occasional subway will connect .

But, Ill tell everyone a little secret about New england right now.  We dont have a single subway outside of like boston.  And the sewers, while many drainage pipe can fit a man crawling or perhaps crouched down uncomfortably, most cannot house a chud

Yes, the idea of subways in small towns is crazy. And sewers with exposed sewage is down right medieval.  They should probably be renamed to maintenance tunnels/ storm drains and get shrunk down to a much smaller size. That wouldn't really change anything as there are no tracks or trains in the 'subway' now.

 

THAT BEING SAID - I've had some AWESOME fun in the sewers in old versions. By --- FAR --- my favorite was when one intersected lab on a lab run. It was sealed off by metal grates, and I sawed through them somehow, drawing monsters from the other side (which was appropriate). I then ended up using it as an entrance to the lab and setting up an underground camping site. It was loads of fun.

I don't know why they don't connect to labs anymore. They don't even connect to sewer plants.

Edit:
There should probably be areas, like special labs or bunkers, that are only reachable through the underground. Like, imagine if the Necropolis didn't have anything on the 0 z-level so you wouldn't know where it spawned without hunting for it. That wouldn't make subways interesting exactly, but would give a reason for exploring them.

I've never messed around with an exclusively underground mapgen. Do sewer connections work properly and does an underground overmap special interfere with what spawns on the surface? I know it would block another special from appearing in that area, but houses and forests should be normal right?



« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 05:37:54 AM by Sunshine »

Offline pisskop

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2017, 02:17:39 PM »
yea.  any expansion of sewer/subs should include ant-made intersections and connections for labs, mines, etc

Offline secretfire

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2017, 10:50:59 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_drain#Residence

Thats much, much more common then people living in the sewers, par se, outside of really large cities with subways (like Boston or NYC/etc.) But its a great trope.

One other source...though to my knowledge I've never heard of people LIVING in them...almost every former 'boom town' in Pennsylvania has extensive tunnels under it. Butler, PA, for instance, has huge semi-flooded tunnels where guys sneak in to fish. (I've never been there, and I think they are IDIOTS, but guys go there and fish on occasion.) New Kensington, PA, has a lot of old WW2-era aluminum plants connected by extensive underground tunnels. They don't connect with the sewer systems, and flood after it rains, but I've seen tons of people go in there for various practical reasons. (usually related to utilities, subsidence, flooding, or somesuch.) They are easily big enough to walk in. Parts of Pittsburgh still have coal mines under them dating to the early 17th century... and thats entirely ignoring the plethora of abandoned train tunnels which you can find in pretty much every part of the NE, including dense urban areas. Even NYC has those.

Thats one unfortunate side effect of the 'mines as exotic dungeon' part of the grid. Probably it would be fair to have a number of towns (past a certain size) - have disconnected, long-abandoned mines or tunnels underneath them. It really isn't uncommon in coal country or the rust belt in general. Your looking more at the southern and western parts of the 'northeast' - but those small to mid-sized town areas are more representative of the game as it now is, anyways, and could give plenty of inspiration for areas.

Like, off the top of my head for areas/rooms/etc.

1. Stormdrains (with variants that have collected dead zeds and other such things)
2. Decades to centuries abandoned mines. (Variants: Partially Flooded)
3. Utility closets (Variants: Electrical, Plumbing, Cable).

and so on. I mean, this is probably overboard and I'm sure you'll find it silly, but it is actually kinda realistic for the area, if you really wanted to cut back on the 'walking sewers' and find more realistic alternatives, as several have commented on.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 10:56:16 PM by secretfire »

Offline Grandpuh Ty

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Re: Subways and Sewers
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2017, 01:16:20 AM »
Oh please, that sounds amazing :D