Author Topic: Encumberment and Melee  (Read 530 times)

Offline mvm900

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Encumberment and Melee
« on: June 18, 2017, 07:51:13 AM »
I'm sure this has been talked about before, albeit it's hard to see because just looking up encumberment has a lot of results, but surely the melee and encumberment system is at least a little heavy handed. Having a plastic jacket on lowers your melee skill by 15%. Like, you know what, sure, I'll somewhat say that maybe it's a bit harder to fight with some items on but jeeze. A backpack and a jacket makes -25% and it just seems annoying to need to either take that off or flee because your character is too busy flailing to hit.

Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2017, 09:11:55 AM »
It can look bad on paper, but in actual game you will quickly get enough accuracy to offset that.
Some items are out of line, but most fitting items are perfectly fine. Not wearing anything or only wearing a t-shirt is still a bad option.

Offline TooDAMNMuch

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 10:04:21 AM »
It can look bad on paper, but in actual game you will quickly get enough accuracy to offset that.
Some items are out of line, but most fitting items are perfectly fine. Not wearing anything or only wearing a t-shirt is still a bad option.

to be honest, i'd say most items are pretty far out of line, almost anything with decent storage is 40 encumberment, if not more.

whatever happened to that feature to allow melee characters to drop backpacks and have them still contain the items, anyway?
that would at least make it less of a pain in the ass to have to drop everything you own first.

also, one thing i'll say, seriously consider a rapier, it's a huge difference between missing all the time and not with that one technique.
1. disassemble lockers 2. disassemble broken console in the southeast corner 3. you now have the materials to craft a metal funnel, 60L tank and a brazier 4. find a second shelter or rip another 60L out of a car 5. you now have infinite clean water
people ask THAT often.

Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 10:34:28 AM »
to be honest, i'd say most items are pretty far out of line, almost anything with decent storage is 40 encumberment, if not more.

Vast majority of items doesn't have 40 encumbrance. Where you're getting that "most" out of?

Offline tarburst98

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 12:57:02 PM »
maybe they mean in total?

but yeah, accuracy from skill overtakes the negative mod from encumbrance pretty well.  as in, at around 5 skill in cutting and melee i could wear a full heavy survivor set with a survivor rucksack and still hit things for my glaive like 80% of the time.

Offline mvm900

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2017, 04:44:34 PM »
Yeah I can see that for the most part I guess.

Offline deoxy

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 02:04:25 AM »
This kind of thing is why most newbie guides focus on the hit bonus for early game weapons - a bat has a +3 to hit, which completely negates up to 39 torso encumbrance!
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Offline TooDAMNMuch

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2017, 08:13:45 AM »
http://cdda-trunk.estilofusion.com/bindle

you can also suddenly only use one at a time, don't duffel bags have 40 as well? the item browser site is messing up for me.
1. disassemble lockers 2. disassemble broken console in the southeast corner 3. you now have the materials to craft a metal funnel, 60L tank and a brazier 4. find a second shelter or rip another 60L out of a car 5. you now have infinite clean water
people ask THAT often.

Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2017, 10:20:41 AM »
This kind of thing is why most newbie guides focus on the hit bonus for early game weapons - a bat has a +3 to hit, which completely negates up to 39 torso encumbrance!

That was the old math, which penalized early characters too much and allowed endgame ones to negate all armor penalties easily.

In new version the encumbrance penalties scale with your to-hit:
40 torso encumbrance means -40% on to-hit (not rolls directly, but the "pre-final value"), so a 0 skill, 0 dexterity character with a bat will have 3 * (100-40)% = 1.8 to-hit (no rounding), but a 20 dex, 10 in all skills character with same bat will have (20/4 + 10/2 + 10/3 + 3)*(100-40)% = (5+5+~3.33+3)*60%=~9.8
The "absolute zero" character loses only 1.2 to-hit, while the godly one loses over 6.

This works better than the old math because now you can wear a duffel bag and still hit things despite no skill (just less often), while a kung-fu master will not want to wear one despite being able to reliably hit things with it (just that without it, he hits them nearly always).

Offline nick0010

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 12:19:04 PM »
http://cdda-trunk.estilofusion.com/bindle

you can also suddenly only use one at a time, don't duffel bags have 40 as well? the item browser site is messing up for me.
http://cdda-trunk.chezzo.com/ is currently working better (all credit due to chezzo for hosting it.)

Offline deoxy

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Re: Encumberment and Melee
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 02:19:39 PM »
This kind of thing is why most newbie guides focus on the hit bonus for early game weapons - a bat has a +3 to hit, which completely negates up to 39 torso encumbrance!

That was the old math, which penalized early characters too much and allowed endgame ones to negate all armor penalties easily.

In new version the encumbrance penalties scale with your to-hit:
40 torso encumbrance means -40% on to-hit (not rolls directly, but the "pre-final value"), so a 0 skill, 0 dexterity character with a bat will have 3 * (100-40)% = 1.8 to-hit (no rounding), but a 20 dex, 10 in all skills character with same bat will have (20/4 + 10/2 + 10/3 + 3)*(100-40)% = (5+5+~3.33+3)*60%=~9.8
The "absolute zero" character loses only 1.2 to-hit, while the godly one loses over 6.

This works better than the old math because now you can wear a duffel bag and still hit things despite no skill (just less often), while a kung-fu master will not want to wear one despite being able to reliably hit things with it (just that without it, he hits them nearly always).

Oh, hey, that's a nice change!  I missed that somehow...
This is the text that goes under the post, and there ^ is the post, so this is where it goes.