Author Topic: "Used" CBMs as analogy to "filthy clothes" mod  (Read 1102 times)

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: "Used" CBMs as analogy to "filthy clothes" mod
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2017, 09:01:31 PM »
A section in @ for various "hidden" stats  (minor stat effects tab?) where vague character feelings could be a useful tool while keeping it from being OP..... might be a good solution.
Numbness is a good candidate for this, and would give feedback about the gradual nature of painkillers.
would make keeping track of your 'vague hidden health' level and other stats easier, without cluttering the 'major' stat effects section.
The hidden health stat is hidden on purpose, not because were short of room on the menu.

Waiting for medicine to take effect might be common sense in real life, but is rarely a factor in video game logic. Of course it is right at home in a game as detailed as CDDA, but the problem is that the rest of the game does not "train" the player to expect this, and often even expresses the opposite impression that medicines here work just like regular video game logic.
We did have some concern that people wouldn't be familiar with it, which is why installation attempts warn you about the delay when suggesting you take more painkiller.  It seems that the reminder that the delay exists was insufficient for some people though.
I see that there's a failure message that reminds the player of waiting. How about moving the reminder to the Y/N prompt before installation, especially when or after the CBM installation process is being fleshed out?
The warning is displayed when you attempt to install a CBM, it cancels the attempt, but doesn't use any resources. In other words, it comes before the Y/N prompt.

Looking at the feedback, there's definitely an issue with the interface for this new feature, it works as intended if you know about some key mechanics, like delay time for painkiller effect, and painkiller OF.  If you aren't aware of these it's dangerous to use.

Some of the options for addressing this:
1. Be specific about how long painkillers can take to reach full effect, i.e. "painkillers can take up to an hour to reach full effect".  This is the most minimal fix and targets the specific misunderstanding that leads to player death, that waiting 5-10 minutes is sufficient for painkillers to kick in fully.
2. Display feedback about "numbness level" in addition to pain level somewhere. This attempts to make the delay mechanic more apparent, more directly, but seems fragile for this particular issue, because it's one more piece of interface you need to understand in order for it to work. It's good to have information anyway, so it might be worth doing independent of this issue.
3. Display onset times in painkiller item descriptions, and possibly in messages when taking them.  This is another general solution that has some risk of not being noticed in this particular case. This one is also worthwhile independent of CBM installation.
4. Add a craftable "surgery prep kit" that has the right amount of painkiller in it to get an average person ready for surgery.  This gives people a safe option for installations, but isn't a one size fits all solution.
5. Make the "you need painkillers" prompt lead to a menu for selecting painkillers to take, the minimal version would just let you select painkillers and it would take them on a schedule to determine the necessary dosage for your character. This is the most radical change, and would more or less eliminate the risk of taking the painkillers for this purpose. It's also a bit complicated to implement.
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Offline Litppunk

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Re: "Used" CBMs as analogy to "filthy clothes" mod
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2017, 09:14:40 PM »
Quote
Quote
would make keeping track of your 'vague hidden health' level and other stats easier, without cluttering the 'major' stat effects section.
The hidden health stat is hidden on purpose, not because were short of room on the menu.

I did not mean to fully reveal it, only give it a place to have the latest wake-up message in regards to it. Something like: Alertness comes to you easier these mornings. etc...

Nothing that tells the player anything they shouldn't already know. But useful for play-throughs that last long enough to get broken up by real-life enough, or for long enough to cause save-point disorientation.

Maybe keep it even more vague then the wakeup messages, without the self aware perk.
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Offline Mantar

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Re: "Used" CBMs as analogy to "filthy clothes" mod
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2017, 12:08:09 AM »
Painkillers really ought to have a "recommended safe dosage" on their label. IE in the description.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: "Used" CBMs as analogy to "filthy clothes" mod
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2017, 01:57:21 AM »
I did not mean to fully reveal it, only give it a place to have the latest wake-up message in regards to it. Something like: Alertness comes to you easier these mornings. etc...
Oh right, that is a good idea.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!