Poll

How do you feel about the recent change to the CBM installation rules?

I like the way it is now.
4 (8.5%)
I like the change but feel it needs some balance
16 (34%)
I think the change would be better if painkillers only increased success chances but were not a requirement.
13 (27.7%)
I don't care.
5 (10.6%)
I liked the old way.
9 (19.1%)

Total Members Voted: 45

Voting closed: September 23, 2017, 05:02:01 PM

Author Topic: CBM changes and you - POLL  (Read 1502 times)

Offline §k

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2017, 12:27:16 PM »
My idea on cbm installing:

Should need a machine in hospital.
Should take hours.
Should need painkiller, disinfectant, saline solution, cotton ball, bandage.
Should damage relevant body part.

Should have high success rate.

Offline leebash

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2017, 01:24:49 PM »
Should need a machine in hospital.

That makes sense. Or maybe have someone to help you.
For example, those replace body parts (eyes, limbs, for example) with cybernetics.




« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 01:26:59 PM by leebash »

Offline deoxy

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2017, 02:15:13 PM »
My idea on cbm installing:

Should need a machine in hospital.
Should take hours.
Should need painkiller, disinfectant, saline solution, cotton ball, bandage.
Should damage relevant body part.

Should have high success rate.

Agreed on every point, except perhaps that you could get by with less-than-proper treatment after the fact (bandages and such), as players to that all the time with combat damage.  Also, I would say they should have a VERY high success rate.

That said, the current system, with its high requirements and significant fail chance, does make sense for doing it WITHOUT said machine.
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Offline Tamior

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2017, 03:07:56 PM »
My idea on cbm installing:

Should need a machine in hospital.
Should take hours.
Should need painkiller, disinfectant, saline solution, cotton ball, bandage.
Should damage relevant body part.

Should have high success rate.
Success rate should still depend on skills/stats rather heavily.
The "machine" is probably best implemented as a vehicle add-on (same as kitchen unit or welding rig). That way it's stationary in use, but can be moved if you have proper skills and equipment. Just make it spawn in hospitals same as welding carts and mobile generators spawn in garages.

And, yes, pre-packaged CBM would make sense as MRE type item that yields not only the unit, but also all necessary consumables. While butchered CBM would be just the unit (with an obligatory "filthy" tag, heh).
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 04:02:17 PM by Tamior »

Offline Tamior

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2017, 04:04:32 PM »
CBM installation machine as vehicle add-on has numerous advantages, actually.
This way it can be both spawned naturally and included into some books as a recipe.
Also it means it would be easy to add a inferior "makeshift" version of this machine as an auto-learn recipe with something like [ first aid(6) electronics(7) mechanics(3) computers(4) ] requirements.

If we have this "makeshift" version, we can make some type of machine mandatory, too.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 04:12:42 PM by Tamior »

Offline TheFlame52

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2017, 01:35:43 AM »
I'm reviving an older topic to bring up a relevant point. Mycus Feeders can't take drugs, including painkillers. That means a whole mutation path can't install CBMs. That's not a good thing.
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Offline Umbra Vorago

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2017, 02:17:03 AM »
I know this is an old topic that the traitor brought back up, but I'd like to say how this made me feel anyway.

Honestly, I always imagined that the CBM's were sort of self-installing, considering it would be impossible for you to operate on yourself in some regards.
I thought it was like a little box device you fiddle with settings and input data of where and what to do, hence the computer/mechanics/medical skill needed, you place it on your body then it goes to work.

The fact that it now requires painkillers isn't really that huge a deal for me, personally. I don't know if this was the case back then, but having a high enough First Aid skill tells you how long until the drugs you've taken kick in to full effect. Then it's just a matter of reading the description of if the drug is meant for slight, medium or intense pain.

But I suppose I understand why many people dislike the idea of being forced in to using painkillers. I think the compromise should be to at least be forced to use some painkillers, but not as strong ones, so you're forced to put up with some of the pain whilst it's installing, as without at least 'some' painkiller it would be far too excruciating to do. I mean cauterising your own wounds is one thing, but slicing your body open and forcing things in to your own body is on a completely different scale. If you can find me people who could and would suffer through the pain of operating on their own spine without dying/passing out, then I ask you to completely disregard my point.

Also, I know this isn't about the how I feel about the changes, but I saw something about doctors being required in the future? I'd be alright with that, BUT only if there are other methods too, such as creating a new spawning room in Hospitals and Science Labs. After all, I'm sure modern medicine would have machines to do the operations, and you could even put those useless dissectors in the Science Labs to use!
Just make sure that the equipment is still functioning well, or you might find it'll cut off more than you bargained for.

Edit: Crap, I voted for the wrong thing in the poll. Mentally take away one vote from the third option and put one in either the first or second.

Also, I forgot to mention something I really wanted to say! There's only one thing I'm not looking forward to regarding bionics, and that's lack of body space. I think it makes perfect sense, sure. But when you throw mutations in too, all logic goes out the window. Can a bear with the TAAAAAAANK and Freakishly Large mutation fit more bionics in to their body as they're built bigger? Does a slime who is basically just a blob have a limit too?
That's just my personal preference though. If the limit in the future a mod can be made where the limit is taken off, I'd be grateful.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:44:44 AM by Umbra Vorago »

Offline TheKobold

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2017, 03:17:34 AM »
I think the painkiller usage is fine though ambiguous.

As a whole though the system is lacking.

I think that there should be two different types of CBMs. First would be CBMs that can be installed by one person, these would include most of the simpler ones. I.E. internal chronometer, cranial light, Internal storage, etc... The second would be CBMs that would reasonably require major surgery to install.

Along with the two types of CBMs they should have two states. First, harvested, this would let you know it needs the rest of a kit to install, such as the scalpel, painkillers, antibiotics, disinfectant, etc... The second state would be a kit, including all the necessary items to install it.

I like the ideal of doctors and machines or even an NPC companion with the proper skills to install some of the more intense CBMs.

I don't like the way the community response was handled. At one point players were told something to the affect that their input was taken before the pr was implemented but only if they visit the git, silliness if you ask me as 99% of people don't delve into the code or visit git... It also seems like great offense is taken when some one voices negative opinions about changes and is told they are off topic, which is weird cause the only things that seem to be pointed out as off topic are negative opinions about changes and a few strictly maintained threads like the update thread. Of course if we do dare to visit git and put in our opinions about some change we may get banned if we are "rude" in the eyes of certain people despite many instances being blown out of proportion.

But these are just my feelings on the changes and some related tangents. To sum it up I think the new system is severely shallow and would of been better built from the ground up as has been said.


Offline TheFlame52

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2017, 09:16:17 PM »
I would be perfectly fine with needing a kit to install used CBMs.
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Offline NuG

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Re: CBM changes and you - POLL
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2017, 02:59:34 AM »
I actually don't mind it too much how it is now. I actually hadn't installed many bionics until the change happened.. maybe just one or two before I believe, so I don''t have much experience with the old way. I just pop 2 codeine and wait 30 minutes and seem to be able to install them just fine. The only thing I don't like is that I got opiate withdrawal this past time I installed on my current run. I'm not too sure if it was just from the 2 codeine or if I had taken some opiates for pain the day before or maybe poppy cough syrup because I had gotten over cold sort of recently around when I installed.




The CBM installation limit is turned off unless you activate it in the debug menu, right? Is that going to change?