Author Topic: derail re: forking from "Coolthulu's patches"  (Read 1317 times)

Offline Adventurer

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derail re: forking from "Coolthulu's patches"
« on: August 11, 2017, 07:06:06 PM »
How about making this the mainline and just cutting Kevin out of the equation? His backwards thinking is going to hold back the game forever at this rate.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 07:04:37 AM by Kevin Granade »

Offline Zhilkin

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2017, 08:18:19 PM »
How about making this the mainline and just cutting Kevin out of the equation? His backwards thinking is going to hold back the game forever at this rate.
That's no good.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2017, 10:23:15 PM »
How about making this the mainline and just cutting Kevin out of the equation? His backwards thinking is going to hold back the game forever at this rate.
Coolthulu (or anyone else) is free to fork the project and start making releases if they want.  It's simply a matter of having the necessary skills and commiting the time necessary to make it happen.
That has roughly nothing to do with, "cutting Kevin out of the equation" though, I'm going to continue developing the project for the foreseeable future.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
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Offline Adventurer

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 01:48:37 AM »
How about making this the mainline and just cutting Kevin out of the equation? His backwards thinking is going to hold back the game forever at this rate.
Coolthulu (or anyone else) is free to fork the project and start making releases if they want.  It's simply a matter of having the necessary skills and commiting the time necessary to make it happen.
That has roughly nothing to do with, "cutting Kevin out of the equation" though, I'm going to continue developing the project for the foreseeable future.

Sure it does. People will start using the superior version, which is Coolthulhu's. And then PRs can start going to his github rather than the CleverRaven one, because then they won't have to deal with you.

Offline darktoes

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 11:37:27 AM »
How about making this the mainline and just cutting Kevin out of the equation? His backwards thinking is going to hold back the game forever at this rate.
Coolthulu (or anyone else) is free to fork the project and start making releases if they want.  It's simply a matter of having the necessary skills and commiting the time necessary to make it happen.
That has roughly nothing to do with, "cutting Kevin out of the equation" though, I'm going to continue developing the project for the foreseeable future.
Sure it does. People will start using the superior version, which is Coolthulhu's. And then PRs can start going to his github rather than the CleverRaven one, because then they won't have to deal with you.
It's much easier to maintain a small patch for the mainline than to attempt to maintain an entirely new line away from one of the lead developers, and that's assuming that all the other lead developers are willing to abandon the first said lead developer because of "Backwards thinking" in the form of trying to change and develop new mechanics. I think you need to remember that the game is very much in development, so lots of things are being worked on and changed.

Out of curiosity and considering how much discussion and backlash there has been over the painkiller use with CBM feature, how feasible would it be to set up a voting system on one of the different websites used for Cataclysm? Here, Reddit, even the main download website should be able to host some sort of vote so when a new feature moves into development or is considered for changes everyone could vote on how it should be implemented. I know some discussion takes place but most of it is excessively wordy, unpleasantly phrased and scattered across all the different forums.
If we had one simple system for deciding things, wouldn't that make it substantially easier to see what the community wants? I realise it's not nearly that simple, but could that be a step in the right direction?

EDIT: After further reading I understand more that some of the controversial changes weren't due to matters of preference so much as an attempt to overhaul things that need it, so my voting idea might not be as useful, but it could still serve to prevent some of the arguments and nonsense that crop up from these things with changes like the bionics. I understand that it's an early attempt at adding a new mechanic, but it would be good to see whether the community actually wants said mechanic implemented the way currently intended, if at all.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:03:15 PM by darktoes »

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 04:27:17 PM »
how feasible would it be to set up a voting system on one of the different websites used for Cataclysm?
Very feasible, it was done, it didn't get much attention, it was abandoned.  The social aspects are a lot harder than just standing up a website to tally them.
More importantly, the project is not a democracy.
The method for users to influence development is via debate. This is intentional, not due to laziness.  Debate sidesteps all the nasty problems around deciding who gets to vote and enforcing that everyone gets the right amount of voting power etc. and validates that people actually know what they're asking for.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline Greiger

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 07:54:46 PM »
Ah yes, so you are choosing the 'it's my way or the highway' approach.  Last I checked this was a community project.   Like how you recently shut down dangernoodle's blocking rework that was very clear on their goal, because after you asked for an example, they provided a very clear and good one, and then got understandably annoyed when you kept asking for more specific examples when the general example they gave was very strong and easily extrapolated into any specific case you could ask for.  You responded, after a bit of back and fourth to unilaterally ban dangernoodle from the project, and just ignore it when yer called out on it? https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/21503

You have done good work in the past it's true, but you seem to be letting your power go to your head.  Don't you want this to be back in the old days, when people cooperated?  When one person just restructuring a few jsons had as much say as anyone else?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 07:56:34 PM by Greiger »
I have a mod!  It has new vehicles! Like 3 wheeled microcars, dune buggies, trailer parks, and tanker trucks!
http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=13738.0
It may be, just slightly outdated :P

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 05:47:23 AM »
@Alec White no imge posts please.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline Alec White

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 05:53:14 AM »
@Alec White no imge posts please.

You could have deleted the pic, no need to delete the whole post. It would have been nicer of you.
And anyway didn't know we can't post single images.


You have done good work in the past it's true, but you seem to be letting your power go to your head.  Don't you want this to be back in the old days, when people cooperated?  When one person just restructuring a few jsons had as much say as anyone else?

As I said in the deleted post:
You only need  a single person committed enough to fork off into the sunset. This is an open source game, and that's why I'm thankful of Coolthulhu.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 05:59:52 AM by Alec White »

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2017, 07:15:57 AM »
You could have deleted the pic, no need to delete the whole post.
We had a ridiculously huge controversy a while back about editing posts that broke rules, as a result I don't edit posts and instead just delete them.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline Litppunk

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2017, 09:32:00 PM »
To whom it may concern:

Kevin knows best. If you think he doesn't, debate with him civily until you realize why kevin is right. Throwing accusations around that someone is a lesser person is a low tactic that only makes you seem immature and discredits any suggestions and ideas you may have. I have debated with him several times, and can credit myself no wins to date. Much to my frustration, though I'm pretty sure I have gotten a few suggestions through.

Kevin and the other devs are all human and capable of error, but are quick to correct any bug or mistakes. The only income any devs make from CDDA are through the completion of Github  bounties, and Kevin nets $0 from any that.

ALL the devs putting work into CDDA do it out of passion and love of the game. Please keep this in mind when commenting on THEIR work, and do not disrespect their effort, even when you disagree with how they have spent it.

Thanks,
Annoyed with complaints.

P.S. please keep it on topic as best you can.
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.

Offline Alec White

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2017, 04:43:05 AM »
To whom it may concern:

Kevin knows best. If you think he doesn't, debate with him civily until you realize why kevin is right. Throwing accusations around that someone is a lesser person is a low tactic that only makes you seem immature and discredits any suggestions and ideas you may have. I have debated with him several times, and can credit myself no wins to date. Much to my frustration, though I'm pretty sure I have gotten a few suggestions through.

Kevin and the other devs are all human and capable of error, but are quick to correct any bug or mistakes. The only income any devs make from CDDA are through the completion of Github  bounties, and Kevin nets $0 from any that.

ALL the devs putting work into CDDA do it out of passion and love of the game. Please keep this in mind when commenting on THEIR work, and do not disrespect their effort, even when you disagree with how they have spent it.

Thanks,
Annoyed with complaints.

P.S. please keep it on topic as best you can.


Ironic enough, your post is pure off-topic and will probably attract replies such as this one. If you have a problem is better to make a thread about it, instead of dumping your stuff and ending it with a "please keep it on topic as best you can.", so that way it will not receive any replies from the people that has a different opinion, hence keeping your totally off topic post in the thread without any repercussion.
Thanks,
Annoyed by off-topic.


And speaking about on-topic stuff, Coolthulhu how often do you update this fork with cleverraven?
I think I heard you saying on IRC that it was every time there was something important, and I'm wondering if you are still doing it, or have you change the frequency.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 04:51:45 AM by Alec White »

Offline trelatyraelis

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Re: derail re: forking from "Coolthulu's patches"
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2017, 01:04:07 PM »
I don't see what's the point of this thread. If Coolthulu wants simply make his own fork (as he basically has done except for the actual splitting and renaming, considering the fact that his releases sync with DDA's main repo with his additions) then he'll do it. Hell, he did it in the first place because he wanted to have a version that better suited his tastes. That's what forking is all about.
So please don't try to generate drama and shit-talk the lead of the project for no real reason, because while I may agree that the direction DDA is going is inherently flawed then all you need to do is just
fork
the thing
no need to insult anyone
just fork it
And even then, since it would only be COolthulu's idea, I find resorting to sarcasm so thick you could cut it with a stick pretty childish. Especially when Kevin already told everyone that DDA's his own thing and not a democracy.
This is literally the same thing as willingly going on a bumpy path and complaining about the bumps to the rider when you could actually just get off the road and oh what do you know there's a perfectly fine un-bumpy path right there oh goodness me how did I not spot this sooner.

Offline Valiant

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2017, 06:57:04 PM »
Kevin knows best. If you think he doesn't, debate with him civily until you realize why kevin is right.
I know of at least one example when Kevin admitted he was wrong: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/20458.

Offline Zhilkin

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Re: derail re: forking from
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2017, 08:33:21 PM »
Kevin knows best. If you think he doesn't, debate with him civily until you realize why kevin is right.
I know of at least one example when Kevin admitted he was wrong: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/20458.
Probably he was posting under the influence :D