Author Topic: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?  (Read 776 times)

Offline Litppunk

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4127
  • Laughing at death: the answer to impossible
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2017, 01:05:17 PM »
be aware: pending changes (full deletion?) from LUA, to not Lua, and anything that may effect.

can't think of anything else I can comprehensibly warn/ know to warn you about, though lack of code diving to warrant that being meaningful should be cited.
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.

Offline ZoneWizard

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2017, 01:48:13 AM »
I will bring up realism! HAVE AT THEE NAVE!

Dual wield works to a degree, but realistically you cannot: Reload with a gun in each hand and your accuracy drops dramatically because both hands even for some ambidextrous such as I, is still off. No...seriously. No skill can compensate for this. It falls to perception and literally making your brain "GUESS" with the off hand gun. If you say"NO THAT AINT TRUE!"....tough! It is. You either aim reasonably with one gun and the other is "Perceived guessing" or you Perceive guess both. In either event you take your chances.

Can you do it? Of course! Would you like to test it a real fight? I'd enjoy you as my enemy, please do this lol XD
(This was not a boast or taunt to actual fight irl. Seriously. The context was Player character to mob/NPC ONLY!)

The flip side: I'd also enjoy the skill or trait ability to do this to a degree. If I have a spike/blade on a pistol for example. I use my trait and it gives be a bonus to hit/damage if I slash first and my reactionary "aim" is better or something like that.

ex: arms length slash/stab (trait takes over) I get a aim buff(because I'm 1 tile over right? Ya know, to slash/stab) and I shoot.
......in fact that would be a great trait more than a skill. Gun-Fu trait. When 1 tile away and using a pistol; with or without a sharp mod. You either bluntly/slash/stab attack and gain an aim buff to a shoot attack the next attack turn.

How about it?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 01:54:14 AM by ZoneWizard »

Offline Litppunk

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4127
  • Laughing at death: the answer to impossible
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2017, 04:45:00 PM »
Hmm duel weild being efective would require world tier training in hip firing, pistols, and general practice, and being 'in the zone' to the level of subconscious mastery. And near battlefield omniscience instinctive intuition on par with world champ matial artists or better.

Hmm.... That sounds actually plausible between all the boons of the cataclysm. between mutations, bionics and vanilla leveling beyond 'human' ranges thanks to blob particles. Throw in some customized clip holders to allow hollywood 'drop and reload' for non-revolvers, or 'cylinder switching' for revolvers. OH..... the glorious badassary.
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.

Offline Logistic Tangent

  • Zombie Food
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2017, 05:44:01 AM »

The flip side: I'd also enjoy the skill or trait ability to do this to a degree. If I have a spike/blade on a pistol for example. I use my trait and it gives be a bonus to hit/damage if I slash first and my reactionary "aim" is better or something like that.

ex: arms length slash/stab (trait takes over) I get a aim buff(because I'm 1 tile over right? Ya know, to slash/stab) and I shoot.
......in fact that would be a great trait more than a skill. Gun-Fu trait. When 1 tile away and using a pistol; with or without a sharp mod. You either bluntly/slash/stab attack and gain an aim buff to a shoot attack the next attack turn.

How about it?

Love it. And I never said I wanted this to be realistic. I wanted to have this be just a touch campy. If you have ever seen a John woo  (think that is him) film or have played double action boogaloo I was just thinking that that sort of thing would be fun.

Another option could be to have the gun fu trait add your pistol (or other gun?) damage to your melee strike. Or even a gun fu book. (Think that was covered in an earlier post)

Offline Litppunk

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4127
  • Laughing at death: the answer to impossible
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2017, 01:38:53 PM »
john wick?

aim bonus should come from >successful< stab. could have an overall aim bonus as well, maybe isolated to close range, but the main bonus should come on successful stab. Because once you've stabbed the enemy, you can't possibly tell me your not going to fire with the barrel (almost) touching.

Successful melee in general should ad bonus to firing next turn, and successful firing adding bonus chance to hit the next turn. but succesful stab should be near guaranteed hit, with crit bonus based on damage of stab, or rather stab damage gives bonus to shoot damage, hit chance, crit damage, and crit chance next turn. Unsucessful shot_after_stab should hold the possibility of loosing the weapon, in the same manner as a normal piercing weapon.
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.

Offline DemAvalon

  • Zombie Food
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Through sheer magic I have registered on the forum
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2017, 02:30:23 PM »
john wick?
No John Woo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Woo

you know how Max Payne dives around in slow motion firing pistols while at it? he does that because of Woo's films.
"Oh Master, I don't do THOSE sorts of things♪..."

Offline Litppunk

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4127
  • Laughing at death: the answer to impossible
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2017, 08:03:46 PM »
Oh. He was referring to a director. Not a characte. Got it.
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.

Offline Mantar

  • Zombie Food
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • NOMAD
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2017, 10:16:59 PM »
John Woo is great. If you like action movies and have never seen Hard Boiled, go watch it. (The Killer is arguably even better, but Hard Boiled is my favorite.)

Offline ZoneWizard

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2017, 09:37:56 PM »
Yeah my idea was a working one when I was reminded of John Wick. Basically run over and sucker punch the dude with the front of the pistol in a downward motion. Turn the gun upward and get a head shot pointing up. Requires close quarter to work. But it truly has other ways of doing this for real and if indeed you are fast irl. It is possible.

The head shot maybe a little iffy. But I did say "aim buff". So it remains as a normal possible head shot, instead of a guarantee. More likely to "just hit" and take a normal hit.

In any event. Nice collaborative in this thread. Truly hope this can be added to the game. Kevin? Cool? PK?

Offline Litppunk

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4127
  • Laughing at death: the answer to impossible
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2017, 09:50:31 PM »
Nah, theres no infighting. We are discussing the game without arguing about it. The Devs that be do not feel a disturbance in the thread.
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.

Offline Kevin Granade

  • Administrator
  • Survivor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5497
  • I code dead people.
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2017, 01:00:13 AM »
This was a good post made in the current aim balance PR: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/21468#issuecomment-327104441

tl;dr (especially since it's youtube videos): A pragmatic way of merging close quarters and firearms is simpy to keep your target at a good distance with your off hand and empty your magazine into them, you don't have to worry about missing, just getting your gun knocked away.

In practice, this would be something like a melee attack to grab your target with your off-hand, and then very fast (no aiming of course) actions to fire your weapon.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline Litppunk

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4127
  • Laughing at death: the answer to impossible
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2017, 01:07:43 AM »
Hmm. something like that becoming mainlined may mean mobs having grapple counter type stuff more commonly, or something that acknoledges increased danger to the grappling arm. and similar part specific risks. Would stack nicely with a more detailed damage system.

Man. I could have sworn there was some sort of training on a more practical version of gun-fu. Krav Maga? Think there was a US military version too though, but I can't seem to find anything on it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 01:16:59 AM by Litppunk »
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.

Offline Logistic Tangent

  • Zombie Food
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2017, 02:59:01 AM »
The only stuff I personally remember are like the El Presidente drill and the Mozambique drill but those are long-range Maneuvers not hand-to-hand.

As far as martial arts go that might lend himself to this type of Gunplay maybe Wing Chun? as far as the movie Ip man goes it looks like it would work for the sort of thing we are describing.

Description iirc of the two maneuvers I mentioned.
(click to show/hide)

Offline Kevin Granade

  • Administrator
  • Survivor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5497
  • I code dead people.
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2017, 03:25:16 AM »
I was actually thinking about Mozambique recently, as a technique you could unlock at high pistol skill.
How I imagine it playing out in game:
You trigger either "double-tap" or "triple-tap" (I think Mozambique is a bit obscure even for dda players...) when aiming at a target, you fire two or three shots in quick succession as a single action, with the second and third shot only suffering a fraction of the usual recoil penalty.  After the action though, it applies significantly more recoil than it would have for three ordinary back-to-back shots.
Basically if you really need a tiny burst of fire at a single target, it's great, but it leaves you at a severe disadvantage if the last shot doesn't finish off your target, since you have way more recoil than usual to recover from.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline Litppunk

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4127
  • Laughing at death: the answer to impossible
    • View Profile
Re: Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 03:31:11 AM »
I like it, though don't OVER penalize it too much just enough to keep it viable for holding your ground tactics. You are talking about a skill unlock after all. Players should be excited they have a new ability to help them.

Would also help make pistol maneuverability more readily noticeable in game-play and lore without having to tweak and nerf other stuff so everything can have its proper niche.
Feeds both of grandpas wolves, and but doesn't let them fight; Then saves the car full of cash sells it and starts an orphanage, anti-railroad-tying shenanigans-organization and invests.