Author Topic: Sneaking  (Read 1449 times)

Offline Litppunk

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2017, 02:53:11 AM »
anyone know if corpses or meat/body parts are good at throwing predators off by scent/hunger?

didn't even realize the bleach thing, that's pretty nifty.

Scent is very biological, and dogs in urban areas will frequently try to find the sent on any greenery nearby because it holds scent better due to the plants having an optimum water concentration (or something like this) to high and it dilutes/covers/masks it, to little and the nose doesn't work as well, something like this. So changing the water concentration where the scent is can vastly alter the scents longevity.

Bleach hits the source more driectly breaking apart organic compounds including those that give organic material scent.

Don't quote me on any of this, I am going off things I heard that one time combined with this one thing I heard from mythbusters etc..
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Offline §k

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2017, 03:02:33 AM »
I think "chunk of meat" scares animals.
Specially when said chunk of meat is traveling at several Gs towards the animal.

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Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2017, 03:21:51 AM »
Meat doesn't mask scent or create more scent, but some creatures are distracted by it.

The main problem with sneaking is the main mechanism is breaking line of sight, and we don't have good mechanisms for doing that other than going behind walls.

In the distant future, I want to have some kind of voxel engine setting elevation of individual tiles, but that requires diving back into the shadowcasting code, and I need to recover some sanity before I do that again.
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Offline Sayurime

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2017, 09:49:20 AM »
The main problem with sneaking is the main mechanism is breaking line of sight, and we don't have good mechanisms for doing that other than going behind walls.
Just remove 360° FOV and everything will be ok with sneaking. I'm not right?

Offline DemAvalon

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2017, 12:06:56 PM »
The main problem with sneaking is the main mechanism is breaking line of sight, and we don't have good mechanisms for doing that other than going behind walls.
Just remove 360° FOV and everything will be ok with sneaking. I'm not right?

You mean like giving everyone cones of vision like Unreal World does?, that would require changing the control scheme, I think it works well on UW once you get used to it but, it might be too big a change for CDDA.
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Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2017, 07:11:54 PM »
The main problem with sneaking is the main mechanism is breaking line of sight, and we don't have good mechanisms for doing that other than going behind walls.
Just remove 360° FOV and everything will be ok with sneaking. I'm not right?
I've looked into it, up to and including protyping it, but I can't get it to not suck :P
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
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Offline Sayurime

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2017, 07:53:24 AM »
it might be too big a change for CDDA.
This is must have change if you want good sneaking system and for better using of noise system. This is only way to do good.
I've looked into it, up to and including protyping it, but I can't get it to not suck :P
What exactly «sucks»?
Reduce FOV to 180° and make better wandering system for zombie. Lock view direction to movement direction. Add eight keys for changeing view directions without movement and one key to lock current view direction while movement.

If you need help with technical implementation I'm sure people at this forum can help you with it and with other prombles too.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2017, 06:00:54 PM »
There's about 10x as much navigation in buildings and similar environments in dda as in urw from what I can tell, a control scheme that's mildly annoying but acceptable in urw is a non-starter in dda.

Possibly with some extensions to allow reasonable auto-move in some circumstances, and you switch to micromanagement of movement when it matters, but I'm sceptical it will ever work in dda.  Frankly I don't think there's any good reason for the player to have their fov restricted to enable stealth in most circumstances, things rarely sneak up on the player, we want to enable the opposite.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline NuG

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2017, 06:11:22 PM »
Yeah I'm not sure I'd like the view restricted. I tried to get into UW before trying CDDA, and I think the view mechanic was part of what turned me off of UW. I still want to go back and give it another shot though that I have more experience in turn based rogue-likes. I always felt like in CDDA even though we aren't moving while standing still in a tile, our PC can still rotate his head to scan his surroundings.

Offline DemAvalon

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2017, 06:20:18 PM »
Well the player can sneak in adventure mode of Dwarf Fortress, and there the player has a 360 vision, I have no Idea how it works though,Elona also does this and everything has 360 vision there, I think it does a random rolls and checks that vs your sneaking ability but I don't know
Yeah I'm not sure I'd like the view restricted. I tried to get into UW before trying CDDA, and I think the view mechanic was part of what turned me off of UW. I still want to go back and give it another shot though that I have more experience in turn based rogue-likes.
You should definitely try, UW has one of the best outdoor survival experiences of any game, tracking animals and people, night ambushes, winter survival its fantastic, cataclysm has a whole different feel that is why I never felt like sneaking was missing from this game, combat is also (in my opinion) much more interesting.
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Offline NuG

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2017, 08:28:29 PM »
Well the player can sneak in adventure mode of Dwarf Fortress, and there the player has a 360 vision, I have no Idea how it works though,Elona also does this and everything has 360 vision there, I think it does a random rolls and checks that vs your sneaking ability but I don't know
Yeah I'm not sure I'd like the view restricted. I tried to get into UW before trying CDDA, and I think the view mechanic was part of what turned me off of UW. I still want to go back and give it another shot though that I have more experience in turn based rogue-likes.
You should definitely try, UW has one of the best outdoor survival experiences of any game, tracking animals and people, night ambushes, winter survival its fantastic, cataclysm has a whole different feel that is why I never felt like sneaking was missing from this game, combat is also (in my opinion) much more interesting.

 I really didn't try to hard to get into it, like I did  for cataclysm. I'm an avid outdoorsman myself, which is one of the things that originally drew me to it.. so I'll definitely be giving it another shot sometime soon. I didn't dislike it completely or anything, I just didn't give myself enough time orient myself with all the controls and stuff, IIRC.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2017, 10:37:27 PM »
To clarify something I said, if you want to allow the player to interact with vision cones in order to sneak up on targets, it is the targets that need their FoV restricted, not the player.  Only if we have monsters we want to sneak up on an unwary player so we need to restrict what the player can see*.
If we want to restrict monster FoV, the much trickier issue is how to communicate to the player what direction monsters are facing, or more generally what areas the monsters can currently see, so that the player can try to avoid their vision.

* I actually do have an idea for implementing this in limited circumstances.  If a player is aiming through a rifle scope, it is reasonable to restrict their field of view to the forward arc, because there is a non-negligible cost when exiting the aiming interface.  So if a player were sniping at a group of distant enemies over a protracted time, they may find themselves vulnerable to ambush.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline harison86

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2017, 12:48:29 AM »
If we want to restrict monster FoV, the much trickier issue is how to communicate to the player what direction monsters are facing, or more generally what areas the monsters can currently see, so that the player can try to avoid their vision.
It could be handled the way Dwarf Fortress handles it in Adventure Mode: when the player is in sneak mode the field of view of enemies is indicated with colored cones.
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Offline Adragis029

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2017, 12:49:00 AM »
I think the way to implement enemy stealth (besides the obviously supernatural like shady zombies) should just be their coloration. Triffids are already hard to tell apart from forests if you're not being slow.

Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: Sneaking
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2017, 02:19:11 AM »
Restricting FoV angle would work terribly with current "AI" of monsters. FoV works in games where creatures have something to do, not mill about mindlessly.