Author Topic: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.  (Read 82679 times)

Offline John Candlebury

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #150 on: October 23, 2013, 08:33:25 PM »
While we discuss music i ll drop this jewel i found here

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/551157

That feeling of loneliness and hopelessness

This one is perhaps to gamey but is awesome also http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/548279
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 08:39:16 PM by John Candlebury »

Offline Binky

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #151 on: October 23, 2013, 09:21:24 PM »
I think the goal is to have a Resourceful and Resourceless download - for those with crappy internet connections, you'd download the base game and it wouldn't come with music or tiles, but you could download them separately as desired and just drop them into place. For most people, you just download the full version and switch between the various options locally as it strikes your fancy, with everything already plugged in.

That sounds great, I just despise when things go from a 2mb to a 30mb download for resources you just don't *need* to play. Will this be for the experimental's as well? Cata dev builds seem to have become increasingly stable (I imagine it's from a lot of hard work recoding messy bits) so it'd be a shame if we couldn't get those resourceless as well.

As a side note however, having them as a plugin/mod (even an all in one 'official resource' mod) might make it easier rather than having lots of different 'full' versions? Just a thought.

Offline vultures

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #152 on: October 23, 2013, 10:21:17 PM »
The SFX could get large enough but that's not the case with midi compositions. :-)
As for support and custom user picks, players should be able to enjoy mpeg and browse the resource folder in-game.
Again, ideas folder open for the enthusiastic bunch: mailto.
"On Labor Day the vultures disappeared. Nobody could remember when they had not circled early dawn.  Death's falcons.  Turning miles above the arid northwest reaches of Tribeca tethered by scent."

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Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #153 on: October 23, 2013, 10:23:48 PM »
I think for releases we'll have:
"game + media" archives for each build.
"game only" archives for each build.
Official release media archive.
For experimental builds they will almost certainly just be the game itself, we probably aren't putting audio media into github anyway.
We might do periodic media releases if we e.g. find a new song or add some more sounds to the media pack.
We're fairly unlikely to do a curses or wincurses release that includes audio, since we're probably going to use SDL for audio, which might just be a step to far for number of build targets.

Ninja'ed by vultures: Yea, the media directory is just going to be a directory with a bunch of sound files in it, maybe with some json attaching metadata to different files.  You should also be able to drop in your own sounds.  SDL_mixer supports a pretty wide variety of formats, so it's pretty much drop in and play.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
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Offline vultures

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #154 on: October 23, 2013, 11:12:55 PM »
Now for that kung fu kick, there are a lot of media libraries - but you might wanna take a look at cncs232.dll (MMF 1.5 or above) for it's a way to bring a/v content to Windows games. Platformers and indie platformers such as SMW use it frequently.
note: The library and the consequent ones are free (and required to run certain games) but the developer tool isn't. It's an alternative when you're trying to get things done without SDL 1.2 and 2.0, but it's also more than a directX mixer.
"On Labor Day the vultures disappeared. Nobody could remember when they had not circled early dawn.  Death's falcons.  Turning miles above the arid northwest reaches of Tribeca tethered by scent."

The Absent Vultures of Tribeca
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Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #155 on: October 31, 2013, 03:07:08 PM »
Windows-only is a dealbreaker, as is non-open source developer tool requirements.
It needs to be cross-platform and open source for me to even consider it, I'm fairly sure SDL is the best option in that direction, even more so since we're already integrated with SDL.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline jcannon98188

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #156 on: October 31, 2013, 05:22:45 PM »
Another option for media is to do it how soundsense in dwarf fortress handles their download. you could have a downloader exe with the game to download the optional media. That way you guys don't have to have multiple versions of the game available, and we could just decide if we want the download individually or not.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #157 on: October 31, 2013, 05:37:48 PM »
That's actually a far more complicated solution :P
Providing multiple versions is simple and cleap.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline vultures

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #158 on: November 01, 2013, 03:42:56 AM »
Quote
Windows-only is a dealbreaker, as is non-open source developer tool requirements. *SNIP*
Actually, I was looking for some enhancers to the chiptune wisdom online when it popped up. It seemed to me that most of the indie/rl projects used 'complementary' and so to say 'vanilla' solutions. I don't glorify or pity this or that, it's just that some less popular games make use of the fact that there are plugins out there. I'm pretty certain the recent one I posted about was available in the VB format.
"On Labor Day the vultures disappeared. Nobody could remember when they had not circled early dawn.  Death's falcons.  Turning miles above the arid northwest reaches of Tribeca tethered by scent."

The Absent Vultures of Tribeca
by Douglas Anthony Cooper

Offline vultures

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #159 on: November 15, 2013, 09:08:01 PM »
*kevingranade pokes at the SDL_mixer API with a stick.
Huh, that's not as bad as I thought....

Actually about the post you made about SDL API only, but yet...
Regarding this, I did some research on my own behalf. If there's no doubt to what port, interrupt and handler for memory access are, the nature of the Windows XP (ver 5+) is to parse everything to the Primary Device Driver. The utility port therefore is the driver, mostly WHQ certified, which is in most cases the only one. However, XP can have multiple drivers installed and running for the same piece of (physical) hardware, but not for the exact device they represent. This way some aux input could be digitally outputted in a stand-alone manner, whilst your analog output is using the exact hardware the driver's aimed for. Altough it's only a mapper of a sort, it still prevents from mishaps if there's, say, an application that utilizes the installed hardware to the full extent, such as a studio port of a recording utility, and a simple audio player and exporter with software mixing; your common audio player software. Now for the "research" part:
Example_1: An application with suitable background music and sound effects running over Media Player. This is when the native mixer pokes the sound card for resources and capabilities, and mixes them to the same output if available (that's 99.9% of the time). Works as long as the OS can assign port maps without coliding with reserved resources - so it's full-proof most of the time, as far as the driver's concerned.
Example_2: A piece of software that's written so to use another, inbound API. This works through more than one IRQ (interrupt request) address and handles virtual devices on both levels - frontend and process. The "depth" of the code should render the sound card driver usable or unusable to other apps; a standard, enterprise suite such as Cubase should leave the default mapping to the system so you can exercise some basic forms of sound rendering, no matter what the main utility (here Cubase) figures are at the moment. A "savage" sound processing app may reserve all the resources from the driver but not the driver itself (a pro really) so no rendering happens or there's a warning message at most.
Example_3 XP has certain extensions to the Windows core, such as CMD for some basic DOS support. On the DOS end, sound needs to be initialized regardless of the mapping in the AUTOEXEC or CONFIG native scripts. For more than a few games this is a issue resolved in a suitable way that represents a stand-alone mixer utility that attempts to reserve resources based on the chosen driver, and parse everything to the main app in the way its code requires. Since DOS and Windows cores are very different on this issue, the main OS asks for the primary driver on those specific ports - if there's no 100% DOS EMU driver installed (it's not there in most WHQ cases, DOS is considered obsolete). The main problem here lies with reserving those resources, because they aren't discarded with Windows XP and are captured as long as the DOS app runs in the background. The consequences could be dire even with the different addresses usage for both Core and the Extension, and the loop for sound rendering may "lock" the sound card, or the most of its part. However, this is only the worst scenario - in majority of the cases only the sound init does the mentioned lock, so if you initialize the sound card with some software that points to the "Media Player" mixer (e.g. Winamp) and run the DOS app at pretty much the same time, you get a result based on priorities; preset or the default setting having the upper hand, so Winamp with its internal error handling resolves the issue - and the background CMD line app is freezed by the Windows core. My impression with the main Mixer app is that of a system driver that doesn't have a way of handling exceptions, but the Primary Driver has some discretion over this.

You get the picture with the above mentioned examples - in most cases there is no alternate choice for the Primary Driver. It defines the versatility of the hardware and based on that sends information to the sound mixer system driver. If you engage in forcing a third-party driver whereas the Primary one stands it is possible that the mixer won't accept input, altough a mixer with the app itself can stand in between your code and the actions that the Primary Driver parses to the system mixer.
"On Labor Day the vultures disappeared. Nobody could remember when they had not circled early dawn.  Death's falcons.  Turning miles above the arid northwest reaches of Tribeca tethered by scent."

The Absent Vultures of Tribeca
by Douglas Anthony Cooper

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #160 on: November 15, 2013, 09:18:11 PM »
I'm not getting your point, are you saying I should manually interface with the windows native audio API?
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline vultures

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #161 on: November 15, 2013, 09:32:51 PM »
If the opinion on the SDL only builds in the future still matters, then yes - there are no outstanding issues with porting an application to the Primary Driver. Otherwise, I was just revisiting some of the standard error states WinXP+ systems have streaming genuine, virtual and hybrid variants of mixer/reproducing ports.
I have a few hybrid drivers on my PC so consider it a stable ground for those proofs. :-)
"On Labor Day the vultures disappeared. Nobody could remember when they had not circled early dawn.  Death's falcons.  Turning miles above the arid northwest reaches of Tribeca tethered by scent."

The Absent Vultures of Tribeca
by Douglas Anthony Cooper

Offline Narc

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #162 on: November 15, 2013, 10:44:20 PM »
Uh, SDL_mixer probably just calls out to the native Windows drivers under Windows. And probably calls out to either ALSA or Pulse on Linux. Why would one want to have a hackish implementation that works on only one platform when you can write to the API that abstracts that stuff away?

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #163 on: November 16, 2013, 12:07:48 AM »
In short, my opinion is that the SDL_mixer author probably knows more about this stuff than all of us put together ;)
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
I'm more excited than a survivor on meth and toast'ems. -Nighthawk
The the giant wasp is slammed through the zombie brute!

Offline vultures

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.8 Romero released.
« Reply #164 on: November 16, 2013, 10:22:06 AM »
Quote from: self
If the opinion on the SDL only builds in the future still matters, ...
The XP-discussing post was merely an opinion, and to forward one previous thought that seemed to be in the air. SDL team was brilliant and the package prooved to be exactly what the indie community needed -- it's that there are 4kb demos out there that make use of the native mixer and default driver with no conflicts whatsoever.
"On Labor Day the vultures disappeared. Nobody could remember when they had not circled early dawn.  Death's falcons.  Turning miles above the arid northwest reaches of Tribeca tethered by scent."

The Absent Vultures of Tribeca
by Douglas Anthony Cooper