Author Topic: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline  (Read 37657 times)

Offline KA101

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[Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« on: March 03, 2014, 06:00:26 AM »
Here's a place to discuss, opine, and generally talk about the design outline.  If you've got any questions or comments, feel free to ask and/or opine here.

(Nothing in here alters the design outline, until and unless we add it to the outline.)

[Edited to add link-KA101]
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 06:10:58 AM by KA101 »

Offline John Candlebury

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 04:06:42 PM »
Its good to know this is finally online.

After a quick read think a valid point could be made to permit the existence of some centralized US government along with a still somewhat functioning FEMA and army, even if its only to permit  the existence  the classic zombie movie plot of running to the still functioning evac zones before they fall; which I think would be great thing to have in game either as a possible "victory" condition for the normal game or as the "victory" condition of either an independent scenario or of the rush to the west scenario. 

I think its mentioned that the army has almost completely pulled of from New englan and is fortifying the west coast, but perhaps if you manage to get to the Logan International Airport in time you may catch the last plane to "safety", or perhaps you can still catch a boat to Newfoundland... 

Attention: read "victory" as you are dropped a year later as zombies finally overwhelm your "safe community" located somewhere in the Alaskan wilderness, not as the game ended, you won and the credits play.

Offline i2amroy

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 09:14:38 PM »
Keep in mind it's also fully possible that the reports you've been hearing that the government is still working are all just hearsay, with no real truth behind them.

That said I'm pretty opposed to having any sort of straight out "win" condition. Cataclysm has been, and in my opinion should remain, a survival type rouge like as opposed to a more directed "race to the airport" style one.

Offline HunterAlpha1

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 09:21:48 PM »
Keep in mind it's also fully possible that the reports you've been hearing that the government is still working are all just hearsay, with no real truth behind them.

That said I'm pretty opposed to having any sort of straight out "win" condition. Cataclysm has been, and in my opinion should remain, a survival type rouge like as opposed to a more directed "race to the airport" style one.
Isn't the theme of every zombie movie based on the main characters getting killed trying to find government protection? 
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Offline Binky

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 11:32:49 PM »
Keep in mind it's also fully possible that the reports you've been hearing that the government is still working are all just hearsay, with no real truth behind them.

That said I'm pretty opposed to having any sort of straight out "win" condition. Cataclysm has been, and in my opinion should remain, a survival type rouge like as opposed to a more directed "race to the airport" style one.
Isn't the theme of every zombie movie based on the main characters getting killed trying to find government protection?

Yeah, but catadda isn't based on a zombie movie at all.

I really, really hate the idea of a victory condition, although a 'eradicate the goo/fungaloids/nethers' style end mission, which leaves the world practically harmless would be great, especially if/when some really nifty faction based stuff comes along. Really though, much like DF there isn't a need for an actual end game, although end-game content certainly is interesting.


As I said in the other topic, I think the outline is fantastic.

Offline John Candlebury

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 06:15:53 AM »
Yeah placing win conditions on the normal game is probably a no go. Still I think it that running to the evac zones would make for a very fun scenario.

Offline Binky

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 12:38:55 PM »
Yeah placing win conditions on the normal game is probably a no go. Still I think it that running to the evac zones would make for a very fun scenario.
]

I do like the idea of a race against the clock as a separate game mode or a triggered event. However it's sort of difficult with RL/turn based games, as it'd get tedious making every turn count, and many things could get in your way (having to sleep/eat) which would just be plain annoying.

Still, I think the design document in general lends itself to some interesting end game opportunities, especially considering that crafting everything is a no.

Offline KA101

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 11:42:58 PM »
Yeah, we have Defend (the Generator!) mode so I imagine a "reach point P by time T" isn't out of the question.  It would, however, be a separate mode and not the main idea.

Pretty much because DDA is at base an open-ended game, where not every turn has to matter and there's no one optimal path.

(When I learned that people made bots to play Nethack, that pretty much killed any enthusiasm I had for the game.  Bots = optimized play, IME.)

Offline ArgusTheCat

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 12:28:57 AM »
I like the idea of missions that make the game safer for the players.  But I'm in agreement with the design doc that the cataclysm itself is irreparable.  Sure, you can take out a fungal spire and the spores won't spread in that region for a while.  Maybe upwards of a year or so.  But eventually, they will come back, and you lack the resources as a single person to take them all on.

Or maybe it's a case of "pick your poison".  Do you nuke the creepy portal, cutting off the supply of shoggoths and burning eyes?  Because if you do, the triffids in that area are gonna have an easier time growing their new crop of vinebeasts.  Do you infiltrate and sabotage the robot factory?  Well, guess there's no warbots keeping the goo in check anymore; expect to see some more advanced zombies coming soon.
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Offline ArkonRawl

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 12:33:21 AM »
Honestly I would love to see the factions get implemented/further developed and the trading system refined a bit more, I think it would be really satisfactory to loot say like a lab or something to sell supplies to a particular faction. I just really love the interactions with NPCs . Also first post on the forums after lurking around for the past year.
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Offline Binky

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 01:25:15 AM »
After reading it through again, I would ask that a bit more clarity be put into the realism/sci-fi bit, as it's a bit jarring/difficult to know what is actually meant by this bit:

(click to show/hide)

There's two issues with this; firstly the 'laser-slinging assualts on superscience labs' is followed by the heading 'reality-based' - I know this is very much just an expressive way of 'lots of shooting and violence', but at the same time it's kinda jarring.

Secondly, I think the Reality-based section could do with a bit more of a fleshing out with what is ok and what isn't (as could the whole design document). I know we don't want to box people in creativity wise, but when we have in game teleporters (which are craftable to an extent), it's difficult to match that up with something being reality based (unless they're getting taken out).

I'd suggest to just make it clearer that there may be some 'superscience items' but they're extremely rare and not something the player can build/do much with other than the intended function.

TL;DR: I realise this is implied by the document as a whole, but I think it's worth drawing the line more clearly over what is allowed and what isn't, even if it's just a list of no-go areas.

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2014, 02:22:38 AM »
I'll see what I can do about making that clearer.  you definitely got the gist of it, which is that while super-science things exist, they aren't something the player can make, repair, etc (though cobbling them into contraptions is highly encouraged).

Another aspect of it is a rebuttal to, "it's the future, so things work better".  We want fantastical things in the game, but making them too common and accessable robs them of their special-ness.
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Offline KA101

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2014, 03:19:45 AM »
I like the idea of missions that make the game safer for the players.  But I'm in agreement with the design doc that the cataclysm itself is irreparable.  Sure, you can take out a fungal spire and the spores won't spread in that region for a while.  Maybe upwards of a year or so.  But eventually, they will come back, and you lack the resources as a single person to take them all on.

Or maybe it's a case of "pick your poison".  Do you nuke the creepy portal, cutting off the supply of shoggoths and burning eyes?  Because if you do, the triffids in that area are gonna have an easier time growing their new crop of vinebeasts.  Do you infiltrate and sabotage the robot factory?  Well, guess there's no warbots keeping the goo in check anymore; expect to see some more advanced zombies coming soon.

You've got the idea.  "Missions" in this sense would be a player-defined thing: the fungal bloom will overrun the region if left unchecked, so we're gonna go blast & torch it.  If there's another "faction", be it triffid, Goo, (bots)*, or humans, then yeah, that faction's not gonna have to fight the fungus, so that frees up their resources, but there's nothing preventing you from targeting them as well.  (Or celebrating with them, depending on your perspective.)

*Currently the bots are the least-developed of any major critter-type.  NPCs are marginally in front of 'em because we have folks targeting NPC work.  ;-)

The bloom itself might need support from some other location to regrow, incidentally.  Perhaps you might check underneath the surface too?

Offline Gideon

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2014, 06:25:22 AM »
Victory is surviving one more day.
...and maybe finding a frigging Katana.

Offline KA101

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Re: [Discussion Thread] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2014, 06:34:52 AM »
Victory is surviving one more day.
...and maybe finding a frigging Katana.

You'll need to be playing with the Medieval Weapons pack enabled, AFAIK; if it wasn't present in the worldgen menu then Katanas are still in your mainline.  Either way, try pawnshops, gang fights, and Mansions.