Author Topic: [SPOILERS] The Outpost  (Read 14609 times)

Offline Boy1der

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2015, 11:08:26 PM »
This is quite literally the best mod that I have ever heard of for Cataclysm. Is there currently any test version? Best of luck on your very ambitious project!

Offline vache

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2015, 03:49:19 AM »
The city names are generally pretty reasonable, I'm not sure, but I think they draw from the same pool as the world names.  As for the other thing, I'm not really sure what the problem is.  Are you trying to ensure NPCs don't leave their location while the player is off traipsing around doing quests and whatnot?  In the long run, the solution to that might be that quests are associated with a role, not a specific NPC, so if the NPC in the leader role dies, the one that takes their place can assume their same role as the quest hub/turn in location.  In the short term, maybe just force the NPC to do nothing but wait for their return when they've given you a quest.  If they die, they die.  Call it a feature.

Offline acidia

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2015, 04:42:38 AM »
This is quite a ways out so no test version yet.

The issue is that when you assign an NPC to a detail their success is simulated through a series of character/chance rolls.  The outcome is hidden until the duration of the task is fulfilled.  Until then, we need to store the NPC in a map location other than in front of you.  Easiest is -10z but I guess would become a problem when z levels are all simulated.  Storing the player character during transit is another issue... sending the player character to a boring world and granting you a 'negative sleep' (you are wearied from you labor/trip) status allows the world to be simulated while the reality bubble has nothing going on in it.  The encounters you have on transit, if you are a caravan guard, will be in actual areas along the path to your destination but the bandits you are ambushed by have to be generated when you teleport in.  Get a situation snippet, fight the battle, loot the corpses, and talk to the caravan master to continue on your trip (sending you back to an isolated area so that time can be simulated).  If you don't have any encounters, the player simply hits a 'quiet journey' screen (like the epilogues) before waking up exhausted outside their destination with a bit more cash and a few days before the next caravan leaves.  The end result is a much quicker pace for the player.

Simulating the tasks off screen means that far more complex actions are possible... I mean, send X party to clear Y town is 100% feasible.  All you need is a calculation to determine how successful they are and you are good.  The number of zombies the party can take on might be 1d6 * 10 per character in the party, any more than that and you can do a KIA check based on skill levels.  Parse through the town and remove a percentage of the monsters.  Simple version done, pick up you NPCs with more combat experience, maybe some loot, and a bounty.  The town will be partially cleared/thinned but the loot from the corpses will also be vacuumed up.  Send your squad on an autonomous looting raid, just take every item of value greater than x from a list of random houses [a,b,c].  For each item, give it a 20% chance to be dumped on the floor where the player currently is.  Convert the overmap tile from 'house' to 'looted house'.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 04:46:24 AM by acidia »

Offline Coolthulhu

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2015, 07:05:33 AM »
Well, -10 z-level wouldn't help here either - they'd still be stored somewhere (their x/y coords would still need to be valid and remembered), it's just that they would be all underground.

NPCs are stored either in the bubble or on overmap tiles. They don't really need to be spawned anywhere to be processed. It would be better to create an abstract non-location for them to operate on them than to hack around coordinates. Especially if you don't want them to actually do the regular NPC AI things like searching for items and getting themselves killed by zombies.

Offline Snaaty

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2015, 11:20:59 PM »
This looks great so far. I don't know what you are doing, but when adding new NPC stuff imho it's always better to think "big" and to make a clean and polished addition rather than a couple of semi-finished and unbalanced missions. Your probably know thath though.
There was that one thread where the OP had a pretty well thought through idea of NPC stuff, I liked how well structured everything was there.

Offline acidia

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2015, 06:08:45 AM »
I'm stuck on a work trip for another couple of weeks so progress is going to be slow or non-existent.  I might get a chance to upload the first twelve missions next weekend but it is still uncertain.

(click to show/hide)
Rough Mission Line for Construction Foreman
1) 2x4's to enclose barn
2) Blankets for beds
3) Nails for continued construction
4) Salt to trade for agricultural supplies
5) Fertilizer for the crops
6) Stones for the well and fireplaces
7) Pipes for the pump and sawmill machinery
8) Motors for the sawmill 
9) Bleach for sterilizing equipment for clinic
10) First aid kits for clinic (building advancement is not apparent from clairvoyant mode, half wood wall -> wood wall or dirt -> dirt floor)
11) Welders for the chop-shop
12) Car batteries to power equipment
>Next Missions<
13)  Two-Way radios for scavengers
14)  Backpacks for scavengers
15)  Homebrewer's Bible for bar
16)  Sugar for alcohol production
17)  Glass sheets for green house

If I have the time to sit down and look at the new mission system I'll let you know.  Putting them in a sleep mode in 'hell' accomplish exactly what I need, simply (they are already stored correctly so I don't need to add anything).  Being able to do the same thing with the player just makes it all the more desirable.  Even creating a new list for stored NPCs doesn't solve the issue for the player.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 06:37:25 PM by acidia »

Offline jokermatt999

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2015, 07:20:04 PM »
For people who don't follow the github, I figured I'd mention the pull request has been submitted.

https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/12347

I don't generally test other PRs before they're in game, but I may have to make an exception.

Offline acidia

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2015, 12:15:49 AM »
I suck at keeping this updated...

As mentioned above, the 17 missions I listed are all in the PR that is already up.  Part II, focuses on the new mission system for factions/companions.

(click to show/hide)
This slow gif displays how everything got implemented for the faction/outpost/companion missions.  Pretty close to the test I showed earlier.  The basic missions that have already been finished:
-Purchase East Field
-Upgrade East Field I
-Plant East Field
-Harvest East Field (50%)
-Assign Scavenging Patrol
-Assign Scavenging Raid
-Assign Ally to Menial Labor
-Assign Ally to Carpentry Work
-Assign Ally to Forage for Food
All missions aren't immediately available, you'll need to either complete missions for the holder or be successful in the entry level to prove you are competent for the more advanced missions.  The only remaining mission that I really want for part II is the caravan protection one... these are critical to part III when I look at having the missions actually alter the faction food/wealth.  Then I'll focus on either getting a third (miniature) settlement up to act as a trading partner, looking at having the player tag along for some of the above missions, fleshing out the mission simulations (currently there is only one death path the dangerous missions), or progress the foreman/story missions so that the Old Guard start showing up at the Commune. 

Thoughts or suggestions?

Offline vache

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2015, 12:32:53 AM »
I think the $ figures on things are a little jarring.  It would make more sense to me if they claimed a large chunk of your first harvest in exchange for goodwill or some position of power within the commune.  Then after it becomes a little more established, then they move on to a fairer trading system.

The only other real issue I have is with the idea as a whole and how it fits in right now.  Gameplay-wise, I don't think there will be much of a reason to want to establish or help the commune, since all the benefits that would be provided by it (protection, food supply, water supply, etc) are all things that, usually by the time the player would be in a position to effectively help the commune, they will be far past needing.  It's not a problem with the commune itself, but I think short of revamping the rest of the gameplay progression, there will have to be some special thing opened up by having a fully functioning commune.  One solution might be to have the evac shelter computers have some way of giving the player a mission to find an evac center.  That way it would tend to drive the player towards the center as an early game goal, which then leads them to the other quest lines.

[BTW, I don't mean to sound too negative, this is pretty awesome stuff.]
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 01:07:42 AM by vache »

Offline acidia

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2015, 05:06:38 AM »
Ya, not going to work without currency.  The yield of your first crop is too difficult to track since you can plant just about anything and harvest it in whatever order you want.  Heck, you don't have to use the overseer for either action... you can plant or harvest all of the crops in the field on your own if you are short on cash.  Once your fields have expanded you won't want to plant several hundred carrots every few weeks by hand... until a fire wipes your entire crop out and you end up poor again :(

The commune's goal will remain NPC development, once the commune is big enough the limit on your companions will be your income. 
(click to show/hide)
 

The refugee cent is mundane enough now that adding a locator to the evac terminal might be worth doing.

EDIT:  Harvesting is done, just have to add caravan missions and figure out saving off-map NPCs.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 05:08:15 AM by acidia »

Offline acidia

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2015, 08:33:24 PM »

If anyone wants to draw a draft for a basic interface for simulated faction-on-faction combat in paint, I'd appreciate it.  In the above you can see I just kick out popups for deaths in combat.  I was thinking of having three columns with the left and right just listing the people participating from each team.  When someone dies their name turns gray or something.  Center could be used as a pre-drawn picture of the battlefield so you know what kind of terrain you are fighting on?  For now the player isn't part of the battle so you are just watching how it played out... I guess you may never be a part of it since you will likely teleport to the area of combat and actually fight it out when you can eventually tag along with your companions.

For the simulation the most important values at the moment:
-advantage, increases/decreases initiative roll to simulate having a better defensive position on getting ambushed
-best skill name/value, for each npc... determines overall combat power and attacks
-dodge, determines if the npc avoids getting murdered
-combat power, determines when one force attempts to retreat from the other

Values that may be nice to look at:
-primary weapon for each NPC
-where the battle is taking place
-what terrain the battle is taking place on
-faction for each NPC (your companions are either NONE or Your Faction... not Tacoma Commune, they are simply assisting them)
-rewards/experience for combat?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 08:48:11 PM by acidia »

Offline Kevin Granade

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2015, 11:36:31 PM »
First version of the Commune is merged, no extra-fancy mission interface yet, but it does have the new commune that you can build from a couple of guys standing around in a barn into a small frontier town.
Its like a fun family cookout, except your family is burning in flames while trying to eat you. -secretfire
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Offline DeWolf

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2015, 06:22:20 AM »

If anyone wants to draw a draft for a basic interface for simulated faction-on-faction combat in paint, I'd appreciate it.  In the above you can see I just kick out popups for deaths in combat.  I was thinking of having three columns with the left and right just listing the people participating from each team.  When someone dies their name turns gray or something.  Center could be used as a pre-drawn picture of the battlefield so you know what kind of terrain you are fighting on?  For now the player isn't part of the battle so you are just watching how it played out... I guess you may never be a part of it since you will likely teleport to the area of combat and actually fight it out when you can eventually tag along with your companions.

For the simulation the most important values at the moment:
-advantage, increases/decreases initiative roll to simulate having a better defensive position on getting ambushed
-best skill name/value, for each npc... determines overall combat power and attacks
-dodge, determines if the npc avoids getting murdered
-combat power, determines when one force attempts to retreat from the other

Values that may be nice to look at:
-primary weapon for each NPC
-where the battle is taking place
-what terrain the battle is taking place on
-faction for each NPC (your companions are either NONE or Your Faction... not Tacoma Commune, they are simply assisting them)
-rewards/experience for combat?
So this is your vision of what would happen during a mission? At first I thought the gif would be a simulation of say you use a two way radio one of the factions if a group of merchants and this gives you an idea how long till they get there.

Offline acidia

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2015, 07:04:46 AM »
Quote
So this is your vision of what would happen during a mission? At first I thought the gif would be a simulation of say you use a two way radio one of the factions if a group of merchants and this gives you an idea how long till they get there.

Using the two-way radios to communicate with your companions that are on mission wouldn't be hard to implement but there isn't much need for it yet.  The simulation that I was highlighting is just the combat aspect.  Instead of spitting out debug messages I used popups till we get some kind of UI suggested/designed to keep track of the relevant information.  As far as the caravan's go, they'll either be scheduled (Monday/Friday or 1st and 8th of a season) or when the faction has a trade need and sufficient time has passed since the last one.

Offline Bumpkin

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Re: [SPOILERS] The Outpost
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2015, 04:10:28 AM »
I think I finally found an outpost (silo, barn, garage, lot, ranch) but nobody seems to be in it. Are some uninhabited or could this be because I dialed back my dynamic NPC spawns to 0.05? I kinda assumed the outpost folks would be static spawned.